It's more than the price.
Have you read this forum, in different areas, and other forums, in their different areas?
You can live with the EULA?
The lies, the arrogance, etc?
I can never trust them, no more.
I have not seen anyone mention the security issues of cloud based photo software. With government and banking sites being hacked everyday, it won't be long til some hacker gets into the Adobe cloud and when that happens, all your image files on your machines could easily be compromised and/or stolen. Image theft is a bad enough problem without that. And don't listen to the assurances from Adobe about security because they don't have nearly the sophisticated security of major government or large banking sites have and they get hacked almost daily.
Bleep - There is NOTHING different between the "cloud" software the the perpetual license product. You download both to your local machine and install. The software checks in with Adobe every 37 or 99 days depending on your payment plan. In fact, there's nothing "cloud" about the software at all, other than you download it from Adobe's servers like you always did. The cloud aspect of their service is something completely different from the applications you use, and the licensing agreement is something you should definitely read and understand before moving forward. As bad as this cloud idea is, it doesn't need false information muddying the waters - y'know - making them more cloudy.
Q: Will I be able to buy a boxed/perpetual version of Lightroom 5?
A: Lightroom 5 will be available for purchase as a perpetual software license, via electronic download from Adobe.com and authorized resellers. A boxed version of Lightroom 5 will be available from authorized resellers.
(NOTE: LR5, not "continued" in any sense other than the next release. After that all bets are off.)
Q: Will Lightroom 5 be available from Creative Cloud?
A: When Lightroom 5 is officially released, it will be available for download and use from your Creative Cloud membership.
(NOTE: Yes, LR CC will exist.)
There was another interview somewhere where the Adobe guy said that the Lightroom CC version would have some additional features, but I can't find the link right now.
Look, there is enough information in this thread only to turn anyone half-awake off Adobe. If you are not interested in reading through it all, and prefer to think that Adobe's products continue to be worth owning and buying, suit yourself. I am done with Adobe, and will stay with LR4/PS CS6 as long as possible, and will then look for non-Adobe solutions.
rattymouse wrote:
What is LR5 going to do that is so impossible to live without?
Probably nothing. I'm hoping for a bit of a speed-up over LR4, but in all other respects i don't feel there is anything missing from LR4 that i currently have.
Not fighting Adobe now is just real short sighted. Unless you truly love bending over for big corporations.
I agree that it is important to make a stand now to retain what rights we currently have. But i'm not going to publicly cut off my hands or immolate myself on national TV to do it. There are many ways to make a point. Mine, for the next version of LR at least, will be to continue purchasing their non-CC products and not purchasing their CC-only products. Whilst doing it i will consider other options too. For me, this is a good balance of not massively inconveniencing myself whilst also not encouraging Adobe in their CC business model. Your balance may well be different.
To hell with Adobe.
The main reason to buy new versions of Lightroom will continue to be support for newer cameras, which will not be back ported to older versions for long.
from another forum:
>>Check http://forums.adobe.com/community/creative_cloud to see how "happy"
>>Adobe's customers are with their Cloud subscriptions now that the sync service
>>has been down for days and their files are gone from the Cloud. Then check
>>Adobe's status notifications that say"All systems are go." clearly hiding their
>>service outage...
The way I read this from Adobe is that they have three concerns, cutting costs,eliminating pirating and maintaining a profit margin that is acceptable to their stockholders. They might cut costs but that's debatable considering they still have to upgrade their products and maintain their servers. They will not eliminate pirating, their site will be hacked almost immediately. Profits will fall because most people won't stand for this, especially professionals. Other companies will fill the gap very rapidly. We have time to wait with our CS6 version and then jump ship. Adobe has always been overly paranoid about pirating, if they had reduced the price of their products to a reasonable amount they would've sold so much more! It must kill them to have to charge such low fees for apps. Their stock continues to lose value since this announcement and wait until the media gets hold of this little revolt by professional photographers. I was in the Apple Store yesterday and brought up Adobe and what was going on. The salesperson, believe it or not, knew all about this. I've been a PC user for 20 years and am now considering an iMac partly because of Adobe but mostly because of the Windows 8 fiasco where arrogant Microsoft decided that the customers didn't know what was good for them.
I disagree, Microsoft is often maligned for merely being Microsoft...or ironically in this case, for not being Microsoft. With Windows 8, they really tried being different and to reinvent Windows somewhat. It is an incredibly fast and stable OS and I'm happy as a clam with it. If those in Redmond do "the same old, same old" they are criticized just as as well. Having a billion or more people use your product over the past few decades makes you a target for criticism no matter what, rightly or wrongly.
I think the frustration, once you get to the heart of the matter, is that Microsoft - much like Adobe in this very here thread - hasn't given the end user a choice. You can't simply will the inertia of a 20-something-odd-year user to a different tack. You have to be deft; squeezing too hard will result ultimately make the end user feel coerced.
I don't feel coerced by Microsoft, I am happy to use Windows 8, in part because there are options.
Adobe? Shame on you.
(for what it's worth, I do use Classic Shell ) dennishh wrote:
've been a PC user for 20 years and am now considering an iMac partly because of Adobe but mostly because of the Windows 8 fiasco where arrogant Microsoft decided that the customers didn't know what was good for them.
15Bit wrote:
Probably nothing. I'm hoping for a bit of a speed-up over LR4, but in all other respects i don't feel there is anything missing from LR4 that i currently have.
I agree that it is important to make a stand now to retain what rights we currently have. But i'm not going to publicly cut off my hands or immolate myself on national TV to do it. There are many ways to make a point. Mine, for the next version of LR at least, will be to continue purchasing their non-CC products and not purchasing their CC-only products. Whilst doing it i will consider other options too. For me, this is a good balance of not massively inconveniencing myself whilst also not encouraging Adobe in their CC business model. Your balance may well be different.
I would suggest that staying with LR4 is more balanced than diving head first into LR5, which does nothing but support Adobe's profit stream whilst giving you benefits that are at best perceived.
carstenw wrote:
There was another interview somewhere where the Adobe guy said that the Lightroom CC version would have some additional features, but I can't find the link right now.
I posted the quote two pages ago about the added functionality but here was the question/ answer - and it was on DpReview:
"What assurances can our readers have that Lightroom will not become a subscription-only option?
[Bryan O'Neil Hughes] Lightroom is for photographers. And the Lightroom team is very aware of the reaction by photographers to Photoshop CC. We don't have plans to make Lightroom a subscription-only option but we do envision added functionality for CC members using Lightroom."
rattymouse wrote:
Avoiding LR5 is hardly self immolation.
I would suggest that staying with LR4 is more balanced than diving head first into LR5, which does nothing but support Adobe's profit stream whilst giving you benefits that are at best perceived.
I agree with you on both points. I'm just trying to say that my reaction to this is going to be tempered by my balancing my needs against ideology. And those needs might involve buying LR5. They might not also. I haven't played with the demo version yet, so i don't know if there really is very much there for me that LR4 doesn't have.
I'm afraid you might be in the minority with this opinion of Windows 8, but it is encouraging to hear that it works so well for you. I had almost no success with using it in my studio, almost all my applications failed to work with it especially printers and cameras being tethered. Half of the apps that were available didn't seem to work either. I spent many hours with tech support with no success. They offered to fix one of my problems with sound but it would cost me. That's when I decided to dump the program in the trash where it belongs and put Windows 7 back on my machine. I hope that they finally have this thing fixed my Windows 9, but like I said it'll probably be too late for me I will it jumped to Mac by then.
It is a careful road they need to travel for LR5, Tariq. There ie really nothing like Photoshop so they can act like a back alley gun thug with respect to how they distribute it. Very different matter with raw converter software, loads of choice and high quality product is abundant, almost it's a matter of taste.
So for me and I suspect a large band of PS users, CS6 need be no more than a final touch up and plug-in vessel for incoming TIFFs and PSDs with years ahead of it. And we have seen that even for demanding users, the RCs now do almost all of the heavy lifting.
I also see these market competitors being fast learners from the CC revulsion, if anything they will put any plans to follow the big A well and truly in hold. Even if C1 and Aperture head along the Adobe path, there are still more developers ready to step up. We will see a bigger mix of such providers to this key market.
carstenw wrote:
Look, there is enough information in this thread only to turn anyone half-awake off Adobe. If you are not interested in reading through it all, and prefer to think that Adobe's products continue to be worth owning and buying, suit yourself. I am done with Adobe, and will stay with LR4/PS CS6 as long as possible, and will then look for non-Adobe solutions.
I've been a user of adobe products since PS 2.5 (the first version for windows), so I'm well aware of Adobe.
I rarely make decisions based on public opinion, and almost never from opinions from anonymous members of public forums. Personally, I think there's some very silly comments made, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion (but not their own facts). The sum of all the negative opinions on all the photo forums I've read lately, plus the online petition against Adobe's subscription plan combined I guess would total about 1-2% of Adobe's paying CC subscribers.
What I don't like to see is the patronizing comments from the anti-Adobe element. Because someone else sees value in a product you don't doesn't make them "half-awake". Personally, I think the whole issue is ridicules. We're talking about software here, not a cure for cancer. Use Adobe or not, their business plan will succeed or fail regardless of the opinions expressed on the various photo forums.
dennishh wrote:
I'm afraid you might be in the minority with this opinion of Windows 8...
Oh, absolutely. Windows 8 is more radioactive than Vista, by this point. If I knew nothing about it or had no practical experience by now, I would be disinclined to even try it.
dennishh wrote:
That's when I decided to...put Windows 7 back on my machine. I hope that they finally have this thing fixed my Windows 9, but like I said it'll probably be too late for me I will it jumped to Mac by then.
I had the same issue in December, as some of my "ecosystem" simply seemed marginally compatible, save for DPP and Adobe stuff. But by now it's all sorted and I even got Nikon Coolscan to run on Windows 8 thanks to guy who shared his own driver text for it.
I build my own machines so the PC is a better choice for me, nor am I interested in a "Hackintosh". It's that inertia thing.
Enough of this stuff, let's get back to pissing on Adobe.
15Bit wrote:
I agree with you on both points. I'm just trying to say that my reaction to this is going to be tempered by my balancing my needs against ideology. And those needs might involve buying LR5. They might not also. I haven't played with the demo version yet, so i don't know if there really is very much there for me that LR4 doesn't have.
I'm a big fan of LR. I use it practically every day. I buy upgrades on day 1 and was planning to do so for LR5. But now I'm not and it is because of Adobe's brazen cash grab with Photoshop. If they are not stopped now, if they are not sent a message now, then when? If CC is successful, moving LR to the cloud is only a matter of time. When, not if. If CC fails and perpetual licenses are brought back, then pausing to buy LR5 will look like a pretty smart move.
carstenw wrote:
I can understand those who will buy the non-CC version of LR5 (although I do not plan to), but there can hardly be the talk of need here.
Yes, if LR development stopped forever, LR4 is pretty good software.
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