Jman13, for me, the problem is losing all the work I have *already* done in LR. Even if I can export the metadata, all the adjustments etc. are part of my final photograph and losing years of this work will be very time consuming to redo.
I'm accepting that I am going to probably be held hostage by Adobe in the future. Hoping that their cloud/subscription price for LR is going to be a fraction of the price of PS.
mh2000 wrote:
This directly from an Adobe representative today:
you: I'm just looking at the shift how adobe is selling software
Phillip: Ok.
you: since CS6 is the last standalone software suite, what about LightRoom?
you: ARe there plans in the future to make that monthly fee based software as well?
Phillip: Well, we do not have future information as of now.
Phillip: Yeah, Lightroom 5 version is on its way..
you: ok, so if I continue to use your software, I can expect the possibility of getting locked into a monthly fee based agreement to access all the work I have in Lightroom now?
Phillip: Yes, Its an annual plan where you need to pay every month. You can use the subscription as long as you want.
you: That seems like a big risk. If there is an operating system update that will not run my copy of Lightroom, everything I've done in the software will be lost unless I sign up for your monthly fee.
Phillip: :-(
you: I am a photographer and managing my photos is a lifelong project. I was looking for certainty when I shifted to LR. Now I don't know what to do.
you: I'm interested in long term planning.
Phillip: Yes, I can understand, however, now the current trend is subscription.
So I take this as a pretty clear signal that we will be held hostage by Adobe to continue to access the work we have already done in LR. ...Show more →
That doesn't sound encouraging at all but, at the same time, I doubt this call center person really has a clue as to what's really going to happen with Lightroom. I would bet heavily that Adobe is not instructing their call center to answer a question about Lightroom with "the current trend is subscription".
With luck Phase One (and other software manufacturers) will produce some migration tools for us to convert LR keywording etc to Capture One. Unfortunately Phase One do need to put a bit of work into C1 before it will compete adequately with LR as a general image asset manager, but it is getting there.
Well, if Capture One actually gets there, then there will hopefully be enough competition with Adobe so they will make their prices low enough to keep lazy people like me from having to go through the migration and just stick with LR which is really what I want.
I guess I won't upgrade to LR5 then, but rather, look at Aperture, Capture One, and other solutions, and start planning my transition. I like LR4 (but don't love it), but this uncertain future is unacceptable to me. I will never rent my software, especially not when it won't run when I stop paying.
Sounds bad. This is exactly the worst thing that could happen: an uncertain future. I think I will definetely NOT upgrade to LR5 either, but I do not really look forward to changing my workflow again (I switched to LR4 last year and have been reasonably happy with it since then). In the other hand, if I keep using it, I may have to switch out later, and the cost will be greater if I keep using it more. Sigh...
Fortunately, quite a large part of the info stored in the LR catalog can be exported into the sidecar .xmp files, which are easy to parse, and it must be possible for C1 or anybody to do something for us... But I cannot see how recovery of the settings into a new tool could be made in a precise manner (the parameters correspond to the LR algorithms inputs... unless you know exactly how they behave, there is little chance that you reproduce the behavior very faithfully).
So, I am currently saving all my edit info in the Lightroom library, I believe, as I always thought the XMP files were a bit naff. Now I am changing my mind about this, and would like to have them. Does anyone know how I might do that?
This plus the DNG format takeover bid were clear warning signs of the politburo company's future aims over the past 4-5 years, their attendant delusions of grandeur and dreams of total market dominance. Do it our way, or out there is the highway ;-)
Media Pro, which is PhaseOne's DAM solution, can read most of the info in XMP sidecars (C1 is and will remain a RAW converter and image editor with only marginal DAM capabilities)
...though I will eventually look elsewhere as I don't trust them any longer.
You would have to be a complete fool to trust Adobe at this stage. Not a chance. Adobe has revealed how they think of their customers and there is no going back.
I have upgraded to EVERY last version of Lightroom from day 1 and now am NEVER going to go forward with Lightroom again.
Hmmm... Some ruminations.... Typical greed approach of executives when product matures and market position is dominant....
I will bet that Adobe feels it is now the dominant, and secure player in this space. This will then drive a different business strategy to now increase margins rather than achieve market dominance. They can raise price, a common approach, or use the shift in technology (i.e., cloud computing) as a ruse to get more money from their customers. The growth in sales may still be increasing but at a decreasing rate. I know, assumptions but go with me on this....
While cloud is an obvious technology trend and someday, no applications or data will be on our human interface device, this does not mean we won't have choices, in general, as to how we architect our environments. Nor does this mean that we will be forced to adopt it (as a technology architecture for all our uses).
Anyway I think Adobe is behaving like any company with a dominant market position in now thinking up ways to increase margins. We've seen this with General Motors and the big three when they were dominant. They cheapened the product, led service slide, and the consumer had to purchased more often. I believe I see this with Canon whereas Nikon was always an "upmarket" product and charged more bit Nikon could do this for a time because they did have better glass. Now Canon who was more of a value product, is roughly equal in quality and has grown market share big time... so now, they are increasing their margins by raising prices.
The common thread that makes this margin strategy work is stickiness. Once you made your investment in say Nikon lenses, you tend to stay with that brand as the cost to shift is too high. When the Big Three were dominant, you had little choice if you wanted a big car. Adobe believes that now you understand their complicated product and if you use their library and tagging, the effort to change to another vendor is too high. They all think they "gotcha". So now they "milkya".
The big weakness in this business strategy is that it opens doors to competitors. In technology in particular, a new or weaker entity can now grow. I will bet that the senior executives are at a point in their lives where they now want to harvest as much money for themselves through short term gains and risk the longer-term health of the company. They don't care about longer-term as compensation packages are so lucrative that money in the short term is so big that long term is not relevant in the equation. Boards of Directors are supposed to watch out for this but they don't always catch it and we have seen brands be killed in the scramble for short term gains.
I started out using Corel products and were amazed at the huge number of features and attractive pricing. Unfortunately, they didn't render RAWs real well so when I started shooting RAW, I moved to LightRoom. Coincidently, I was about to pull the trigger and by CreativeSuite.... but now NO WAY!! I am a casual user. So...
I will watch this space, particularly at Corel and if they can render RAW for my 5D MkII as good as Adobe.... I have no problem jumping. Screw em.
What Adobe may be missing here, is American (and the world?) sourness on corporate and political greed. We were just rammed up the .%$#$ by the "system" we trusted and watched our savings and property devalue. Some of us lost our careers. Only now are we pulling out of this recession. So now, Adobe is behaving like the rest of the greedy lot.
Hmmm.... this is going to be interesting to watch.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I suspect LR will remain a stand a lone product that does not require a subscription nor mandatory use of cloud features for a while. Adobe has seen a lot of enthusiasts and hobbyist migrate to LR from Photoshop over the past few years which is one reason it's feature set has grown quite rapidly. I imagine this is part of the reason for this move by Adobe. It will actually push more folks over to Lightroom than before. It certainly does suck though for anyone who uses Photoshop on a regular basis.
Adobe has already stated that the non-cloud LR5 will only get 'basic updates'. The fancier updates of LR5 will be reserved for the cloud version.
gkas wrote:
Adobe has already stated that the non-cloud LR5 will only get 'basic updates'. The fancier updates of LR5 will be reserved for the cloud version.
Where did they say that? I have only seen where they state:
"we do envision added functionality for CC members using Lightroom." in the DpReview interview earlier. Where did you read 'basic updates'? I know that's the case for CS6 but have not seen that for LR.
gkas wrote:
Adobe has already stated that the non-cloud LR5 will only get 'basic updates'. The fancier updates of LR5 will be reserved for the cloud version.
They've never stated that. And they've stated multiple times they are not changing and have no plans at all to change the licensing or update model for LR. Just said it again today.
Geez, I understand people are annoyed but the level of unfounded FUD flinging, misinformation and generally uninformed vitriol in these threads makes it hard to take anything said very seriously.
It is possible to be informed, accurate, rational and still upset about the change. And a lot of people are just that. But the over the top outrage expressed by some is getting comical. (And to be clear these last comments are not directed at the quoted text but rather a lot of other posts).
carstenw wrote:
So, I am currently saving all my edit info in the Lightroom library, I believe, as I always thought the XMP files were a bit naff. Now I am changing my mind about this, and would like to have them. Does anyone know how I might do that?
Okay, thanks, I did see that and changed it yesterday. Unfortunately it seems that it only does it when you activate it manually (via the context-sensitive menu for the photo in the Library view), or possibly when you edit a photo (although when I edited a test photo yesterday, nothing was saved to an XMP).
I guess at some point I will have to select all my photos, and save metadata, and just live without that computer for a few days.
Then I am going to look at how I might use this XMP data in either Aperture or Capture One. If I go to Capture One, I also need to find some DAM program to handle that part.
carstenw wrote:
Then I am going to look at how I might use this XMP data in either Aperture or Capture One. If I go to Capture One, I also need to find some DAM program to handle that part.
Capture One does some DAM stuff - keywording etc. I think LR does it better though. C1 lacks in some other ways too: Oddly it doesn't seem to properly colour manage non-RAW files, and it just doesn't have the same plugin ecosystem as LR which means you don't get those really useful export plugins for zenfolio, smugmug etc, nor stuff like LR/Enfuse.
The biggest hurdle to converting from LR to C1 (or any other package, for that matter) is the image edits and adjustment settings. I can't see a way around this - I think you just have to bite the bullet and export everything to Tiff.
Personally i think i will get LR5. My grandma used to have a saying that i think is applicable here - "Cutting off your nose to spite your face". I don't want to get completely beholden to Adobe, but at the same time i don't want to cause myself lots of extra inconvenience and impose serious limitations on myself just out of principle. So whilst it can be bought with an indefinite license, i will probably stick with an LR-centric workflow whilst keeping an eye on the alternatives.
15Bit wrote:
Capture One does some DAM stuff - keywording etc. I think LR does it better though. C1 lacks in some other ways too: Oddly it doesn't seem to properly colour manage non-RAW files, and it just doesn't have the same plugin ecosystem as LR which means you don't get those really useful export plugins for zenfolio, smugmug etc, nor stuff like LR/Enfuse.
The biggest hurdle to converting from LR to C1 (or any other package, for that matter) is the image edits and adjustment settings. I can't see a way around this - I think you just have to bite the bullet and export everything to Tiff.
Personally i think i will get LR5. My grandma used to have a saying that i think is applicable here - "Cutting off your nose to spite your face". I don't want to get completely beholden to Adobe, but at the same time i don't want to cause myself lots of extra inconvenience and impose serious limitations on myself just out of principle. So whilst it can be bought with an indefinite license, i will probably stick with an LR-centric workflow whilst keeping an eye on the alternatives....Show more →
What is LR5 going to do that is so impossible to live without?
Not fighting Adobe now is just real short sighted. Unless you truly love bending over for big corporations.
Of course, humans are almost always short sided. Seems hard wired into the brain.
