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Archive 2013 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Jman13
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p.9 #1 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Jeff Kott wrote:
I guess we're focused on two separate but related issues.

First issue, what do we think these lenses are worth on some intrinsic level.

Second issue, what did we expect these lenses to cost. Based on prices for other Zeiss (and Sony Zeiss) lenses, if you thought the new Zeiss 32 would be priced at $500-600, I think you were unrealistically optimistic.

You make a good point. I am speaking on the first issue, and how that relates to how I think the 32/1.8 will end up selling. The second issue, you make a good point.

edwardkaraa wrote:
The Zeiss 24/1.8 is priced at 1100$ and it is IMO the lens of reference being Zeiss and E mount.

I guess we're sort of coming from two perspectives. Now true, i don't own the Zeiss 24/1.8, and I don't own an NEX-7, but I did get both of those items for a week of shooting for review a while back, and I have taken several hundred pictures with that lens. I reviewed the NEX-7, but did not do a full review of the 24/1.8. Had I done so, my conclusion would have been essentially: "The Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 is a very good lens for the NEX system. It's sharp over the majority of the frame, has pleasing out of focus areas when focused up close and good color and contrast. It is, however, only a very good lens, and not an outstanding lens. While the 24/1.8 provides good resolution, it fails to deliver spectacular resolution. In fact, at comparable angles of view, it was essentially indistinguishable from my Olympus 12-50 kit zoom at 17mm, when viewed at 100%. It is also absolutely huge for a mirrorless lens, though surprisingly light given the bulk of the lens body. At its current price, I can't really call it a good value, and is, in my opinion, somewhat overpriced."

After shooting with the Olympus 17/1.8 later, I'd put it on roughly the same level as the Zeiss 24/1.8 optically. They're both pretty sharp and have pleasing renderings. Thing is, if I owned both systems, I'd rather have the Olympus, since it's 1/4 the length and less than half the price.

the TL: DR version: I think the Zeiss 24/1.8 is a good lens, but it's pretty overpriced.

May 02, 2013 at 02:30 PM

Dave McGaughey
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p.9 #2 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Jman13 wrote:
I'm sure it is, but so's the Fuji 35/1.4...and it's 2/3 stop faster, $300 cheaper and it's smaller.

Like I said, it had better be utterly spectacular, or they're not going to sell many. As in, it needs to be better than the PL 25/1.4 on m4/3, which right now is what I consider the best normal lens overall I've ever used. It's super sharp wide open with really nice bokeh and a very pleasant rendering. The Fuji 35/1.4 isn't quite as sharp wide open as the 25/1.4, especially in the corners, but has slightly nicer bokeh and perhaps a...Show more →

The lenses will look more attractive to Sony Nex users, I imagine. They don't have a high-performance UWA prime or a premium normal prime.

May 02, 2013 at 02:32 PM

naturephoto1
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p.9 #3 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Hi Edward,

I have to disagree regarding the FF mirrorless cameras. I would expect that Sony or someone else will have one available for purchase by the public by the middle of 2014 if not sooner. The Leica M240 came so close but not quite. There is sufficient interest in the marketplace for this to be delivered that it is a major area of research by many camera makers.

As to the question of making these new lens available to the Fujifilm X system cameras I think that Zeiss realized that Fujifilm which has been a long time major player in the photo business and is in this for the long haul. They are a very capable and innovative company that has made cameras (and serious cameras) for quite a long time. At this point, I think that though not produced in the numbers of NEX cameras, these are considered by many to be a much more traditional design and more serious equipment by many of its buyers as well as serous amateurs and pros.

Rich

May 02, 2013 at 02:36 PM

philip_pj
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p.9 #4 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

'They don't have a high-performance UWA prime or a premium normal prime.'
They do now.

'or *someone else* will have one available for purchase by the public by the middle of 2014 if not sooner.'

Leaving aside big buck Leica, do you know of any other maker besides Sony of which this is true, Rich? Is there any evidence? Mid 2014 will arrive quickly, they have 12 months from now.

May 02, 2013 at 05:10 PM

naturephoto1
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p.9 #5 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

philip_pj wrote:
'They don't have a high-performance UWA prime or a premium normal prime.'
They do now.

'or *someone else* will have one available for purchase by the public by the middle of 2014 if not sooner.'

Leaving aside big buck Leica, do you know of any other maker besides Sony of which this is true, Rich? Is there any evidence? Mid 2014 will arrive quickly, they have 12 months from now.

Samsung is rumored to have FF NX mirrorless camera coming in 2014. Also, there is rumor of Ricoh/Pentax working on something.as well. You can never tell with a company like Fujifilm though the X trans system lenses are designed for APS-C coverage. Beside that, I have nothing to backup my suggestion, but I have my suspicions. I would not be surprised if we see something at CES next year as a Prototype. We may even see a mock-up or an incomplete Prototype from Sony for PhotoPlus in October and/or CES in January.

I would suspect that many of the makers are hard at work with something on the drawing board at this point though. Maybe it will be later than mid 2014, but I certainly expect something to be released in 2014. Whether we like or can afford the camera (s) that will be another question.

Rich

May 02, 2013 at 05:20 PM

Jeff Kott
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p.9 #6 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

naturephoto1 wrote:
Whether we like or can afford the camera (s) that will be another question.
Rich

The only thing I'm sure of is that a lot of people will be complaining about the price of the eventual FF mirror less, whatever that price is.

May 02, 2013 at 05:35 PM

Spyro P.
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p.9 #7 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

zhangyue wrote:
Invest big $$ in APS-C for premier lens itself is questionable to me. Serious amateur will transfer to FF MILC if it comes one day.
Hmmm yes and no and maybe

Some will for sure, some won't because FF will come with extra cost, weight and size, particularly in the lenses.
It all depends how close the FF mirrorless will be to DSLR in cost/size/weight. FF DSLRs will always have the edge in performance because they are ~10 years ahead in development and because of some physical advantages.

Edited on May 02, 2013 at 07:00 PM · View previous versions

May 02, 2013 at 06:59 PM

philip_pj
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p.9 #8 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Didn't mean to put you on the spot, Rich, it is of great interest to industry watchers to see 'what happens next'. From I understand, C/N are still chugging along nicely with their business model (DLSRs at all levels plus compact lines selling on the name), so guess it will be one of the boutique companies that step up, along with complusive innovators Sony. In their case, it is just about their future in high end cameras for the medium term, since they have pushed back A mount cameras - for years really.

Jeff, agree, I still see an RX style high cost camera rather than a one size fits all NEX idea, as Sony has just now with Touit, finally got what many enthusiasts want in native mount AF lens choice. NEX started out as low cost 'great sensor in a so-so comsumer body', I doubt they will do that again.

May 02, 2013 at 06:59 PM

Gary Clennan
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p.9 #9 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

My guess is that it will be well into 2015 until we see a FF mirrorless camera. And yes, it will be at a very high price....

May 02, 2013 at 07:04 PM

Ariel70
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p.9 #10 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

May 03, 2013 at 12:40 PM

serhan_
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p.9 #11 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Touit 32mm 1.8 on Fuji wide open sample at Fujixspot:
http://www.fujixspot.com/f29/zeiss-touit-lenses-fuji-x-mount-1071/

I made a few shots but there was no sun, but what I can say for sure it is that although I was skeptical about the need for a 32mm (having myself the XF35mm already) which is not as fast as the Fuji, but after taking a portrait shot wide open of an old lady, in bad light, I was amazed by the sharpness. Wow ! I tested also while making a walk with my dog now the 12mm and it is fantastic ! Both lenses are silky smooth and the colors and rendition are beautiful. I'm not an expert, it's...Show more →

According to post, the lenses will be available by July.

May 03, 2013 at 02:31 PM

Jeff Kott
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p.9 #12 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Thanks - at least they come with the lens hood.

May 03, 2013 at 02:36 PM

Jman13
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p.9 #13 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

That WO example shows that it will be similar to the ZM 50/2 Planar.

That is, absolutely blisteringly sharp, but with (IMO) pretty terrible bokeh. Still, for that ultra-high contrast look, it seems the 32/1.8 will give it in spades.

May 03, 2013 at 03:12 PM

uscmatt99
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p.9 #14 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Jman13 wrote:
That WO example shows that it will be similar to the ZM 50/2 Planar.

That is, absolutely blisteringly sharp, but with (IMO) pretty terrible bokeh. Still, for that ultra-high contrast look, it seems the 32/1.8 will give it in spades.

Reminds me of the Sigma 35/1.4 bokeh. I don't think it's terrible though, you'd need to use the ZM 35/2.0 or 25/2.8 to generate the really edgy bokeh of the ZM line. Like thesuede pointed out, it's pretty hard to design a telecentric wide angle lens that is very well corrected with smooth bokeh. I'd like to see how it does with a subject sitting 10-20 feet away. I'll take busy bokeh if the CA is very well corrected and the AF is up to task.

Hopefully they release a short tele lens with the 135/2.0 goodness packed in. Samuli's posted photos in the Zeiss thread were really, really good to my eye.

May 03, 2013 at 04:35 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.9 #15 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Jman13 wrote:
That WO example shows that it will be similar to the ZM 50/2 Planar.

That is, absolutely blisteringly sharp, but with (IMO) pretty terrible bokeh. Still, for that ultra-high contrast look, it seems the 32/1.8 will give it in spades.

To my eyes, it looks nothing like the ZM 50 planar. The planar has actually a very nice bokeh for an f/2 lens and much better than the summicron while being still sharper. The shown photo sample is a bit over processed but the bokeh seems to be a bit nervous, but not as bad as a biogon 35/2 wide open though.

May 03, 2013 at 09:43 PM

MarkJones
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p.9 #16 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

I wonder if they will have a crappy lens cap? They look to be if similar design to th Ze/ff

May 04, 2013 at 01:09 AM

Taylor Sherman
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p.9 #17 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

How could they win design awards with those awful lens caps? They MUST have designed something better!

May 04, 2013 at 01:22 AM

MarkJones
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p.9 #18 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Someone must have told then the Z series caps were rubbish or they might have found out that some Z lens owners were using Nikon caps. Don't think its (yet) made a difference though.
Hope and pray that they have seen the lens cap light with the Touit lenses.

May 04, 2013 at 03:09 AM

philip_pj
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p.9 #19 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

It is too early to say, I doubt the bokeh will be bad or even 'poor' but in a day or few we will have a clearer idea. Technically I would like to see the MTF, and how it compares to the faster Fuji lens; for NEX it will deliver well, mounted on the 24Mp next gen sensor (~54Mp on full frame), and should sell quite well. It will be a good allrounder. These NEX lenses need good corners, one area the 24/1.8 is a little short.

The 12mm is the one I want to see however, it is looking like a scaled down 15mm f2.8D which is just a remarkable lens but special purpose and $3000 reasons are needed. Zeiss have an interesting claim even though they have fallen victim to the banalities of over-oxygenated marketspeak:

'...breathtaking image quality from edge to edge and corner to corner of the entire image field. What�s more, all moving parts of the Touit 2.8/12, conceived specifically for Sony NEX and Fujifilm X Series cameras, are engineered for extreme precision and a long working life.'

May 04, 2013 at 03:38 AM

serhan_
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p.9 #20 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Here is the sample photos from PCH, however photos are not at 100% viewable:
Zeiss Touit Samples

May 04, 2013 at 01:11 PM

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