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Archive 2013 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

jcolwell
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p.4 #1 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

grahamb3 wrote:
I'll bet you're also not a native Latin speaker.

Wiki

Probably Dutch: toight, like a toiger.

Apr 30, 2013 at 04:25 PM

wolfloid
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p.4 #2 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Just for some perspective the 50mm f1.4 Canon lens is 50mm long.
The 32mm f 1.8 Touit, designed for a small system camera is 76mm long.

That makes it 50% longer than a faster full frame lens of equivalent field of view, which is by no means the smallest 50 mm lens on the market. Almost twice as long as my Summicron M 50mm f2, which is 40mm long! Can this really be true? Things seem to be going in the wrong direction.

Both the Canon and the Summicron are excellent lenses.

Apr 30, 2013 at 04:36 PM

alba63
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p.4 #3 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

I don't understand the Zeiss choice of focal lenghts and lens speed:

For the nex system.
- 12mm being reasonably well, because of no other WA choice from Sony or Sigma...
- the 32,1,8 being very close to the Sony 35/f1,8, the Sigma 30/2,8 and the 50/2,x being close to the Sony 50/1,8. Yes the Zeiss will be better than any of the Sonys, but they are also substantially more expensive. If one thinks that the Sigma 30/2,8 is very sharp and costs 100 bucks, this is problematic to offer a medium fast 32/1,8 for probably 10 times the cost...

Fuji X system.
- 12mm being too close to the excellent Fuji 14/2,8
- 32/1,8 possibly being trumped by the 35/1,4 in terms of price, weight, speed, size and likely not really better
- 50/ 2,x: there is the very good Fuji 60/2,4, very very sharp.

For Fuji X the zeiss lenses make almost no sense at all.

Why did they not release a killer portrait lens, absent in both systems right now... Something like a 60/1,4 or even 1,2, or the equivalent of a 105mm (70mm)? Or something like a 135mm F2, let's say a 85mm/ 1,8?

Or what about a 16mm shift lens for Fuji X, Nex, and m43?

Those would be lenses that could satisfy lots of users on both platforms, the 35 and 50mm Zeiss touit are quite strange instead....

Bernie

Apr 30, 2013 at 04:41 PM

Jeff Kott
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p.4 #4 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

I'm not happy about the size of these lenses either. It seems like Zeiss's recent design criteria does not take size into account at all, which surely seems to be at odds with the gestalt of a compact mirror less system.

This also seems to be the case with the new SLR 50mm lens - size be damned.

Still, if IQ is superb I'll probably go for the 32, which I find to be a great focal length on APS-C.

You've got to wonder how large the lenses will be on a future FF NEX.

Apr 30, 2013 at 04:59 PM

RustyBug
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p.4 #5 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

wolfloid wrote:
The question was whether changing micro lenses could allow for smaller lens designs, and it can.

Gotcha @ a multi-plane sensor = different array that would afford different lens design.

The question I was addressing was why might have Zeiss chosen to make the lenses so large compared to other offerings for the native format ... with vignetting, distortion and color shift as being possible reasons. It's not too tough to deal with one, or even two ... but all three simultaneously gets more challenging, particularly as we get closer to the film plane (single plane) for the distances to center/edge/corner relate to one another from the projection.

We'll just have to wait and see if the size / weight of the new offerings present merit-able, results delivering images that justify those design decisions. Like most things in our craft, some will say "Yeah" while others say "Nay".

Apr 30, 2013 at 05:10 PM

Taylor Sherman
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p.4 #6 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

OK people.

The length of the 32 is listed as 60mm without caps. 72mm is with caps. Since when is it a tragedy that a super-high-quality AF normal prime is slightly smaller than the kit zoom?

The 12mm is 68mm without caps/hood. Yes, that's slightly bigger than the SEL16F28+UWA, but I expect the quality to be a tad bit higher? And I believe it's also essentially smaller than the CV Heliar 12, which is the only other 18mm-equivalent lens setup I know of for the Nex that's anywhere near the same size, but is also slower and of course manual focus. Compare it to a Distagon 18 + Speedbooster too.

My ultra-wide prospects right now (the 16+UWA can be good, but can also be terrible) are:

- The new 12
- Sony 1018 OSS. Which looks very good really, would've bought one if the Z12 wasn't on the horizon
- Distagon 21/2.8 + Speedbooster when the F-mount SBs are released.

Apr 30, 2013 at 05:14 PM

philip_pj
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p.4 #7 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Zeiss probably were more influenced by Sony than Fuji in their FL choices, there being a precedent lens in the 24/1.8. NEX people now get eq FLs of 18mm, 35mm, 48mm and 75mm macro. All in CZ.

You can happily forget the model line name soon enough, I suspect they are trying to amp up their image which modern PR types would see as stodgy, I mean simply making the world's best lenses could never be enough could it, without a new design look and feel and even font face, and the new name. I like the idea if not the name, which sounds kind of wimpy and poofy to my ears.

It is great to see their design team not being driven by smallness obsessives, and as for comparing them to the smallest FL lens class in FF, please...the 12mm is a very complex 11/8 UW so it is not to clever to compare it to a short tele ('normal') 50mm of 7/6. Weight is very low, that is more important.

'For Fuji X the zeiss lenses make almost no sense at all.'

Is there a problem here? Zeiss sell extremely well into the Canon/Nikon FF market against huge advantages for the numerous OEM lenses, do you think they make 'no sense' there as well ;-)

Slogan suggestion: For best results, do it with touit.

Apr 30, 2013 at 05:15 PM

jcolwell
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p.4 #8 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

alba63 wrote:
I don't understand the Zeiss choice of focal lenghts and lens speed:

Come on man!* What do you expect?

Do you know any camera mounts or brands for which Zeiss and other third-party lens makers (e.g. Sigma, Tamron, Tokina, Samyang, ...) don't cover more-or-less the same range of focal lengths and apertures as the OEM brands?

It's competetion. Time will tell ...

* No offence. I don't mean to shout you out, in particular - it's a common gripe.

Apr 30, 2013 at 05:16 PM

sirimiri
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p.4 #9 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Wow, those are notsmalllenses.

Apr 30, 2013 at 06:45 PM

rattymouse
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p.4 #10 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

AhamB wrote:
The datasheets don't include MTF charts. That fact and the name suggests to me that Zeiss just doesn't want to present these lenses as serious photographic tools. Strange...

What an amazing assumption you make here. Absolutely amazing.

Apr 30, 2013 at 06:52 PM

rattymouse
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p.4 #11 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

wolfloid wrote:
@ rattymouse

I see that you've just added a lot to your last post.

Leica had to find a way to have the M8 and even more so the M9 cope with their legacy symmetrical lenses, since their rear elements would be so close to the sensor. At first they said this was impossible, but then , as we know, they came up with a microsensor array which was steeply angled, thus dealing effectively with what would otherwise have been severe corner problems and light fall off.

Of course, it is not perfect, and it must be cheaper to design new cameras...Show more →

Your post here bewilders me. I was not even in this thread when you wrote this!! Very weird.

Apr 30, 2013 at 06:59 PM

wolfloid
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p.4 #12 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

as for comparing them to the smallest FL lens class in FF, please...the 12mm is a very complex 11/8 UW so it is not to clever to compare it to a short tele ('normal') 50mm of 7/6

I don't think anyone did. The comparison I made, at least, was like with like in terms of field of view, 32mm APS with 50mm ff.

'Smallness obsessives' seems off the mark when talking about people who want small lenses to match the small cameras, for what other advantages do the mirrorless cameras have? Rather than being obsessive I think people are more bemused by the gestalt mismatch.

Apr 30, 2013 at 07:03 PM

wolfloid
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p.4 #13 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Your post here bewilders me. I was not even in this thread when you wrote this!! Very weird.

I'm sorry, it was meant to be a reply to Rustybug. Rustybug /rattymouse, somehow my brain cross-linked them.

Apr 30, 2013 at 07:09 PM

Spyro P.
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p.4 #14 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

I dont think I'm gonna to it

even if the twit-twelve lens was $500 i'd still get the 14/2.8 because it has a marked focusing ring with hard stops, it makes my life easier.

Having said that I do expect the twit to be the absolute best possible wide for architecture and lanscape in the system, even by a small margin. That's zeiss's job.

TBH I cant really see a bright future for the twit-35, that's a difficult product placement.

In any case more choice is a good thing so happy days for the system

Apr 30, 2013 at 07:26 PM

rattymouse
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p.4 #15 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

wolfloid wrote:
I'm sorry, it was meant to be a reply to Rustybug. Rustybug /rattymouse, somehow my brain cross-linked them.

Thanks! I was really confused there. No worries....

Apr 30, 2013 at 07:29 PM

jcolwell
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p.4 #16 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Spyro P. wrote:
... That's zeiss's job.

Zeiss is neice!

[for my NL friends; Ziess is niece - longlive Willem-Alexander!]

Apr 30, 2013 at 07:39 PM

Spyro P.
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p.4 #17 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

niche?

Apr 30, 2013 at 07:56 PM

jcolwell
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p.4 #18 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Leica is niche.

Apr 30, 2013 at 08:01 PM

jcolwell
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p.4 #19 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

Sorry, I meant to say, "I like a Leica".

Apr 30, 2013 at 08:03 PM

Spyro P.
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p.4 #20 · Touit touit touit.... touit :)

yeah but spelled more elegantly, like shoppe instead of shop

Apr 30, 2013 at 08:03 PM

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