Sorry, Mickey, on this one I gotta disagree with you. If the guy worked at the local Sears store or Chevy dealer, I wouldn't have to call his boss. I'd have local LE go and arrest the sucker for "theft by deception" following the drafting by the local DA of a suitable/legal complaint. In the case of a person who alleges an APO address, which, if true, is used to create a similar crime, it would be only appropriate to work through the military system to bring about a similar result. I'd reckon Captain's Mast - don't know what it'd be in the AF or Army - would be the first point of review.
I'd agree with you except this is a "he said she said". There is no PROOF. No DA is going to do anything without it and the local police will do even less. The fact that a phone call can do this kind of damage to a military person but not a civilian, in my mind amounts to blackmail. I am, of course, assuming that he is in the military and MAY be innocent. If he was a scammer why would he even bother to respond? Most would take the money and disappear.
When was the last time you saw a scammer give a refund?
Oh, probably when said "scammer" knew that he was in a world of hurt, so he chose the lesser of two evils. Honest guy, IMHO, would have gone to his CO upfront following OP's "threat" and said he was being fleeced by some guy on some forum on the web. But that's just me
I hate to encourage trust but I made a purchase with an FM seller and he was willing to send me a Zeiss 21mm 2.8 Distagon before he even had the money in hand. The lens arrived here with no problem as did the payment I sent to him. There's some really good people here as well. All the best to everyone here.
MaxBerlin wrote:
I hate to encourage trust but I made a purchase with an FM seller and he was willing to send me a Zeiss 21mm 2.8 Distagon before he even had the money in hand. The lens arrived here with no problem as did the payment I sent to him. There's some really good people here as well. All the best to everyone here.
It's good to know there's still good people in the world, but that's just a bad idea. Never send an item before getting paid.
BenV wrote:
It's good to know there's still good people in the world, but that's just a bad idea. Never send an item before getting paid.
Generally not a good idea, but over time you develop trust for some people and these type of deals occur without problem. I've done this on several occasions with long time FMers
I absolutely agree Max. I'm a very trusting person. I just put bought a lens out of he B/S board yesterday so it hasn't tarnished my faith in this board. I just probably won't do anymore trading. It's a lot easier if I buy something and it doesn't show up, I can just file a claim with Paypal and eventually get my money. But with no money changing hands on a trade you're putting a lot of trust in someone else.
Now on the blackmail issue. Put yourself in my shoes, every piece of evidence stacked against him. I would love nothing more than to believe that he is a good and honest man. I have nothing but the upmost respect for the military men and women as I have a lot of family in the military. But you're right, if he worked for Sears I wouldn't be calling Sears (unless of course he was scamming through Sears products in some way). But if he was in the US I would call the police in his area and have it taken care of.
You're right, a call to his CO could really damage his reputation and career. Which is why I didn't want to do it, I even told him I didn't want to do it. But if he backed me into a corner and gave me no choice I wouldn't hesitate. So lets put you in my shoes.. what would you have done? Just called it a day and chalked it up as a loss? I'm a college student, I can't afford to do that when I pay for all of my equipment through print sales.
Andy, you handled it impeccably. Standing up for your rights can be uncomfortable. There are actually sales professionals who are abrasive, believing that intimidating customers gets them to make purchases they otherwise wouldn't make. If you doubt that, ask someone who has been confronted by a sales person from one of the Brooklyn camera houses that play bait and switch while pushing accessories. I think New York has passed laws that make such behavior illegal, but in the day...
Whomever this person was, he was playing some kind of game and you simply weren't prepared to play patsy. I'm glad things worked out and you got your money back. And I'm happy the experience hasn't soured you to the Buy and Sell board. Trust is earned through honest behavior. Our feedback system allows you to assess the performance of buyers and sellers. It is worth treating your feedback like gold, to be protected as it accumulates.
Good luck with your photography and in finishing your education. I'd love to be young again, but only if I could know at age twenty what I've learned in the intervening fifty years AND if I could keep my kit of MF Nikkor lenses...
I'll be honest. It made me uncomfortable to have a stranger trust me that much. I don't know why but it seemed strange at the time and I went out of my way to live up to his trust. I hope someone else doesn't let him down. The world would be a pretty good place if everyone was like him.
I would have called if he refused to return my money. He's the one who threw the first punch. If he gets in a lot of trouble, that's his problem, not mine. I'm concerned about getting my money or my item.
I too was involved in this whole fiasco. I'd just like to add that Andy and I didn't do anything that wasn't advised by either local law enforcement or the Military. I believe that the appropriate parties are aware of the situation and should do what is needed to get to the bottom of everything.
If you ask me, this person made a bad choice and thought they'd get away with it because they are in the military and in another country. When faced with the realization that it wouldn't be so easy to get away clean he did what he could do to cover it up. The good news is that Andy and I were able to avoid devastating financial losses. Hopefully this won't happen to anyone else here but i feel that i have done my part and am putting this whole thing behind me.
If i have learned one valuable lesson it is that as much as i'd like to trust people i just can't. Always take as many measures as possible to protect yourself in these transactions. From now on it's Paypal ONLY! No gift payments and definitely no trades!!!
After this mess i had one more lens to sell to complete my switch. A member from Canada purchased it. I ended up paying double for shipping just to get the signature confirmation that Paypal required to cover the transaction. It hurt to dish out that extra money for shipping but for the peace of mind...it is SO worth it!!!
I'd just like to mention, to those who objected to calling his CO, for someone in another country there is very little in the way of law enforcement options that are open to you. Calling the CO is essentially the equivalent of, in the US, reporting someone to their local police.
Additionally, if someone were shipping to and from a Sears store that they worked at, and they tried to scam me, I would absolutely call the store. If you've stolen something expensive from me, I am going to use every little bit of leverage at my disposal, and telling your boss that he's employing a thief is leverage. If I thought it'd help, I'd look up your mother's phone number and call her, too.
binary visions wrote:
I'd just like to mention, to those who objected to calling his CO, for someone in another country there is very little in the way of law enforcement options that are open to you. Calling the CO is essentially the equivalent of, in the US, reporting someone to their local police.
Additionally, if someone were shipping to and from a Sears store that they worked at, and they tried to scam me, I would absolutely call the store. If you've stolen something expensive from me, I am going to use every little bit of leverage at my disposal, and telling your boss that he's employing a thief is leverage. If I thought it'd help, I'd look up your mother's phone number and call her, too. ...Show more →
Absolutely, I agree 100%.
Glad I'm late to this party. Reading it from beginning to end was like watching a procedural crime drama on TV. They almost always work out well in the end.
PeakPhoto wrote:
Is there anything I can do? Where do I start.
If you haven't done so already, call the local pd of where the package was delivered and file a fraud report. Sometimes having the police knock on someone's door is enough.
Edit:' read more of the goings on after I posted this. OP did the right thing by contacting the CO. Stealing $1000 is stealing no matter who does it.
My name is Jen. i was browsing the forum and wished i had come across this thread earlier.
I did a trade involving ijtalbot sometimes late march this year. It was a trade for my 16-35L II and his 50L. We agreed to ship on the same day. Like peakphoto, i relied on his 7 positive feedbacks and trusted him. It took 3 weeks as his address is APO but we remained in contacts.
My 16-35 arrived at his place just fine. When i opened my box, there was a big rock. My heart dropped because i realized i had just been scammed for 1200 dollars. I couldn't believe it and didnt' know where to turn. I pmed fred and ijtalbot got banned. He actually messaged me and told me that someone at usps had been tampering with packages and it was a mistake.
I did not file an insurance claim as i did not know any better because i thought only the sender can file the claim. I kept the box and the rock and took picture of it and accepted it as a loss. For a college student, this was a big painful loss and i felt very hopeless in ever retreieving my money.
Weeks later, ijtalbot contacted me again with a different screen name and apologized for what happened. He then asked me to send the box so that he could file an insurance claim to try to get my money back. At this point, i was desperate and thought what else do i have to lose so i shipped the box and the rock back. Needless to say, i called usps later to find that i shouldn't have done that because i don't have the evidence needed to win the insurance claim on my end.
Fast forward a few weeks after, ijtabot made another name on potn and when i saw he was contacting another member, i warned the member and the day after ijtablot was banned.
I honestly still don't know what to do and have given up hope on retrieving the lens or my money. However upon tumbling on this thread, i feel that may be someone could help or have any insight on this. Fred is well aware of the situation and i have kept all the pictures, pms, emails and messages. Thank you for reading.
Hi Jen. I'm very sorry for your loss. In reading your post, it seems that you have contacted the USPS regarding this issue? Since you have, make sure you escalate it by asking to speak to the manager in charge of the Postal Inspectors in your area. Explain everything that you have done and provide all of the information you have accumulated including any pm's, emails, etc. Explain that you still wish to file a claim and get any necessary paperwork started even if he/she tries to tell you that you don't have a case.
In the case of a person who alleges an APO address, which, if true, is used to create a similar crime, it would be only appropriate to work through the military system to bring about a similar result. I'd reckon Captain's Mast - don't know what it'd be in the AF or Army - would be the first point of review. 
