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Archive 2013 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......

  
 
carstenw
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p.9 #1 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


Rusty, I am not happy about the thread title, nor with the argument which followed, but I think you are putting words into his mouth here. He never said that his D800 was worthless, and its advantages presumably come to the front when used for his work. He is merely saying that he does not enjoy processing, nor carrying around large cameras, and for his travel needs, the X-E1 is better than the D800 for weight and out-of-the-camera JPGs, which I personally fully concede. I really enjoy my D800, but sometimes I want something smaller and simpler. I currently use an E-PL3 with some of the best MFT lenses, but have to admit to eyeing the X-E1.


Apr 13, 2013 at 02:42 PM
allstarimaging
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p.9 #2 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


Wow Rusty...pretty sure you could go through all eight pages of this never ending thread and you won't find a single point where I said the D800 was a terrible camera but the reality is that the Fuji jpegs are better straight out of the camera than the D800 and if you read various reviews of the Fuji sensor you will find a number of them that state that very thing

And yes for me there is no need to shoot RAW when the jpegs are so good and I have no intention of making huge prints. You can't seem to comprehend that in some cases there is no need to shoot RAW and that you don't always need a full frame beast around your neck, and that every now and then images have blown highlights. Thank you for deferring by the way



Apr 13, 2013 at 02:45 PM
RustyBug
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p.9 #3 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


carstenw ... I have supported his case from the beginning on multiple times. I get the anti-pack mule perspective. I am in the market for the platform augmentation to my FF gear, so I understand it very well, which I've stated several times.

However, I didn't put any words in his mouth ... he said "blows the doors off" and "so good you don't need to shoot RAW". And those comments came well after the redefinition of outperforms.


He additionally stated that he planned to be only using the D800 for the UWA end of things in the future. That kind of a statement suggests that he is no longer just comparing the convenience factor, but the actual IQ factor on its own merits.

Jack,

True, you never used the word "terrible" ... I "tongue in cheek" inferred that from your "Blows the doors off of my D800" (oooops, I forgot my smiley, my bad). But, you did say:

"Outperforms my D800"
"Blows the doors off of my D800"
"So good you don't need to shoot RAW"

Those are simply difficult things for me to accept ... particularly when you didn't even include a comparison to the D800 or to what can be done with the XE-1 or D800 raw files or any of the jpg adjustments in either the XE-1 or the D800. Sorry if you think I'm outa line on this one ... but, really

Now you've added the disclaimer that you have no intention of making huge prints, which is fine and thus you have no need for shooting raw. There are other reason for shooting raw, as well. That doesn't really make the sooc jpgs so good that RAW is no longer necessary. You may not feel the need since you don't like to use raw, but that does not make the jps so good that raw is no longer necessary for everyone else needs.

So now, I'm really kinda confused. You started by saying it outperforms your D800. Then you say that you were being humorous and we should take it with a relative grain of salt. Then you say it is because of the convenience factor. Then you say you plan to abandon your D800 except for UWA. Then you make the disclaimer that it is not for large print work. I'm having a tough time getting a good read on the applicability expectations vs. the actual performance being produced.

I guess we should just say, it's a really, really good little camera, and call it a day. I think that is something we can all agree on.

Thanks again,






Apr 13, 2013 at 03:06 PM
allstarimaging
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p.9 #4 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


I agree I can't spend anymore time on this post. It's been fun and all the best

Jack



Apr 13, 2013 at 03:28 PM
RustyBug
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p.9 #5 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


+1
Best to you too. Very educational for me. Thanks again.



Apr 13, 2013 at 03:33 PM
Lee Saxon
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p.9 #6 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


I'm not big on the "the best camera is the one you have with you" argument. By that logic the best camera is really your cell phone camera, not your XE-1. I mean, where do you draw the line?


Apr 13, 2013 at 08:13 PM
michael49
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p.9 #7 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


carstenw wrote:
Sure, but would you post it in front of hundreds of people who weren't there and have no warm memories of that place?

Oh wait...


Actually, these sorts of shots fill the pages of travel magazines.



Apr 13, 2013 at 08:54 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.9 #8 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


michael49 wrote:
Actually, these sorts of shots fill the pages of travel magazines.


I suspect the "Oh wait..." was exactly Carsten's way to make this point (and why he could not understand why no one else got it). Are not pretty much ALL photographs made by someone else capturing memories the viewer has never directly experienced?



Apr 13, 2013 at 09:05 PM
philip_pj
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p.9 #9 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


It's a constant source of amazement that we can communicate meaningfully at all on the web, so much gets lost in translation, between cultures, backgrounds, assumptions etc.

carsten, humour is about the hardest to convey, take it from me, haha. Sarcasm and satire, as well as being the lowest form of wit (supposedly) are also the hardest to get across.

But I learnt a few things, and I now want Tariq to offer an online photography course for us to enroll in ;-) That is neither humour nor sarcasm, it would actually be great if this kind of thing could be organised, same goes for theSuede and few others besides.



Apr 13, 2013 at 09:34 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.9 #10 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


Ha ha, thanks Philip.


Apr 13, 2013 at 09:39 PM
itai195
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p.9 #11 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


Lee Saxon wrote:
I'm not big on the "the best camera is the one you have with you" argument. By that logic the best camera is really your cell phone camera, not your XE-1. I mean, where do you draw the line?


I always found "your best camera is the one you left at home" to be more accurate



Apr 13, 2013 at 10:06 PM
carstenw
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p.9 #12 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


Tariq Gibran wrote:
I suspect the "Oh wait..." was exactly Carsten's way to make this point (and why he could not understand why no one else got it). Are not pretty much ALL photographs made by someone else capturing memories the viewer has never directly experienced?


Yes, exactly I was poking fun at someone wanting to capture something which for them would be a personal memory, and then presenting it to others, while realising that this is exactly what travel photography is. Somehow the best travel photography hinges on being able to shoot a scene in such a way that the viewer has the feeling that it is their own warm memory.



Apr 14, 2013 at 01:52 AM
RustyBug
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p.9 #13 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


carstenw, I took your comment as a bit of a double entendre to those two perspectives.

+1 @ Somehow the best travel photography hinges on being able to shoot a scene in such a way that the viewer has the feeling that it is their own warm memory.

I've always aspired for my photography to "take you there" and let you experience it a bit vicariously ... wherever "there" might be. Sometimes "there" can be a place, sometimes a mood, sometimes a perspective, with the better ones being a good combination of all three.

Interestingly enough, I was viewing some travel pics taken by someone else (who doesn't even know what an f-stop is) last night. They had used a dinky little P&S (that I had recommended for their knowledge/skill/budget) that was about 4 years old. They got killed by the shutter lag on their animal photography, with a lot of shots where the animals' heads were missing due to the animal walking out of the frame.

However, that being said, viewing their "static" images on their Ipad, I still was able to experience some of that "take me there" aspect that was really nice ... even to the point of asking myself, if I could have generated any nicer images with my FF gear. Of course, I did note the degree of good exposure vs. bad vs. marginally off vs. totally blown highlights etc. ... but in a certain regard, it didn't matter as I still emotively "wanted to be there".

To Jack's point (et al), the pixel peeping, critical analysis is not the hallmark of a good/great photograph (no surprise there, we've all known that all along). But I must admit I was a bit surprised by how they viewed on the Ipad ... in a way that I wasn't longing for more resolution or tonal range as I viewed them (as a semi-normal person ). And to be honest, I thought some of them were "better" than I produce with my FF gear.

So ... given that the dinky little 4 year old P&S was producing some nice travel pics, it begs the question of why do I carry FF gear and shoot raw? For me, the answer comes down to UWA AOV, DOF control, TS control, tonal transitions, exposure control, DR and processing latitude. None of these things seemed to impact the P&S or novice in their ability to produce some nice images that still had the "take you there" emotive, and in that regard, there seemed to be a degree of "adequacy" involved @ fit for purpose.

No real point here, except that even as a gear head with technical scrutiny coursing through my veins ... great vision with adequate gear trumps adequate vision with great gear. From that, I'm surmising that Jack's point here was that the XE-1 is more than adequate to facilitate when our great vision extends us the opportunity to "take you there" ... and to do so with a degree of confidence that is inherent to not interfering with the interactive process between man & machine, particularly for those who may be interested in a stellar jpg producing machine without the size/weight/expense of FF.

BTW, the X20 is now on my radar (to fit my augmentation of FF gear and to replace that dinky P&S) as an alternative to the pack-mule FF gear scenario, for many of the reason's Jack has noted in the XE-1 ... as a byproduct of Jack's post here. Thus, my sincere and genuine appreciation for the post and the dialogue. Despite those who may have felt I was being retentive or contentious ... I was merely aspiring to be discerning.



Apr 14, 2013 at 08:00 AM
philip_pj
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p.9 #14 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


I do a lot of this so have a few views to share, and I'll be brief: the 'best' as in 'most popular' travel photography is actually very familiar, having been vicariously absorbed in the image soaked world we inhabit. 'Fast food imagery' I call it.

It's stale and cliched, and made for stock - think Eiffel Tower, Taj Mahal, windmills in Holland, San Francisco bridge, Manhattan, glowing sand dunes, clean white sand with sun sinking into the gloden sunset. It's stereotypical, it's canned, it's easy to shoot and people lap it up. Photographers too - think jostles to reach the tripod holes at Adams' famous vantage points, such as Half Moon.

Serious travel photographers bring their special vision to their (hopefully special) subject matter, and it involves melding technical quality with excellent vision, to produce a scene of rare beauty but which nevertheless rewards frequent viewing as time passes by. It should possess high emotional impact, fine technical quality (details) and fine composition. Easy, huh?



Apr 15, 2013 at 07:25 PM
aladyforty
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p.9 #15 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


wow, probably the most amusing thread I've read on here. Bottom line is use the camera best suited to the moment. last year I travelled for six weeks through Singapore, England and Wales with an X100. I shot nothing but jpegs and have already blown up a couple of shots to quite large without any obvious difference to many of my DSLR shots. I took that camera because it was small and I did not want to lug a DSLR around. That said next holiday I will take a DSLR as I'm going where the birdlife is a draw card. I think too much is made of the fine detail with camera gear.


Apr 16, 2013 at 10:22 AM
hauxon
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p.9 #16 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


I just came back from a weekend trip to Paris. A friend of mine loaned me his Fuji X-E1 18-55 an 35/1.4 for the trip. I left my 5DII, Sigma 35/1.4 and Zeiss lenses home. I also got a Gorillapod and left my tripod at home. Everything fitted easily into a small shoulder bag plus my Lee filters and room for more. I must say for travelling the Fuji X-E1 size is just right, it just feels right. It's lightweight and you're not the guy with the big camera.

But however I was not sold. I found the X-E1 a bit of a letdown in few important areas. AF accuracy is not bad but it's slow to lock focus, even in broad daylight. For example I wanted my girlfriend to jump in some some of the street shots and the camera just couldn't lock focus until just before or after she landed. We tried this several times with no luck and just gave up on it. This was during excellent lighting conditions, overcast but bright midday. Doing something like that with my 5DII is easy, with any lens and with less light, I even think my old 2005 300D would handle shots like that with ease. Another frustrating thing with the X-E1 also has to do with responsiveness. When shooting portraits I like to shoot 3-4 shots in a row and directly after the shots I run through them and delete images that are 100% sharp or eyes are closed etc. This is simply not possible with the X-E1, you need to wait for the camera for several seconds before reviewing your shots and if you've shot 3-5 images you might need to wait 15-20 seconds before knowing if you got the shot. While waiting the moment is lost and your model gets tired.

I've seen many beautiful images from the Fuji cameras but I don't see the magic when looking at the images in LR 4.4 compared to my 5DII. The images are sharp alright but look somehow more dull than my Canon files. Might be LR and it might be me not used to the Fuji RAF files.

So I kind of regret leaving the 5DII at home. I would have been heavier to carry around but I would do everything you'd be expecting of a modern camera. Some of my negative experience with the X-E1 might be because I'm not used to it. I love the looks and the lenses are good but I think I'll wait and see how the next generation will perform before giving up on my DSLR.

In general I like the X-E1, the light wieght, the looks, the lenses but I just felt I was not responsive enough.

....and the Gorillapod ...don't get me started on that!!! :-/

Hrannar



Apr 16, 2013 at 06:05 PM
philip_pj
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p.9 #17 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


'without any obvious difference to many of my DSLR shots.'

And I think this is the essence of it - the end point of the 'best camera for the moment' thinking is that the most convenient one gets there, as for Jack - rather than the one that delivers the best results. So often it does not matter and that is a win for people happy with second or third best. Lest my words appear harsh, I wish the best results could be obtained in small jpegs and in all cameras, I really do, but my eyes refuse to see it that way ;-0 Many others have much better luck on that front.

I do get the thing about 'the guy with the giant camera' but it never happens to me as Indians, Tibetans and Eucalypts rather enjoy being photographed.

It would be a good thread in its own right - 'the self-conscious photographer and how one is perceived as a determinant of camera preference in western countries and holiday destinations'.

Bit long..and how about 'Saving 600 grams of unsightly and bulky camera gear rescued my enthusiasm for photography'.



Apr 16, 2013 at 07:00 PM
michael49
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p.9 #18 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


hauxon wrote:
... I found the X-E1 a bit of a letdown in few important areas. AF accuracy is not bad but it's slow to lock focus, even in broad daylight. For example I wanted my girlfriend to jump in some some of the street shots and the camera just couldn't lock....

Hrannar


That would be a non-issue if you brought an OM-D instead.



Apr 16, 2013 at 07:07 PM
hauxon
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p.9 #19 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


michael49 wrote:
That would be a non-issue if you brought an OM-D instead.


Probably but the Fuji lenses are nicer. (I've had both)



Apr 16, 2013 at 07:18 PM
Jman13
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p.9 #20 · My Fuji XE-1 outperforms my D800......


hauxon wrote:
Probably but the Fuji lenses are nicer. (I've had both)


Well, that, of course, depends entirely on which lenses you're talking about, now doesn't it?

I've got the 14/2.8 and the 35/1.4 for Fuji, both of which are absolutely stunning. The 14mm is one of the best super-wides I've ever seen...it's awesome, and better than the Oly 12mm and Panny 7-14mm. The 35/1.4 is also an awesome lens, but for pure optical prowess, the 25/1.4 is the better lens (though I love the way the 35/1.4 renders.) I've got a 60/2.4 on the way (returned my second 18-55 which was awful), so I'll be able to see how that compares to the Oly 45/1.8 and 60/2.8, but that's going to be hard to best, as both of those are simply stellar.

I can't really judge the 18-55 as my first one had odd issues where it would occasionally plop out a terrible image (though was mostly quite good), and my replacement was simply abysmal at 55mm, so obviously a defective lens there. I gave up and swapped it for the 60mm, which will probably be here sometime next week.

Fuji's building quite a good lens lineup, and I'm excited for the already announced lenses on the roadmap, but the good m4/3 lenses are every bit as good or better in most cases.



Apr 16, 2013 at 07:51 PM
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