gheller wrote:
Not ridiculous. PCs are choked with bloatware, pretty well known fact. Unless you build from scratch and install a clean OS, it is inevitable.
I was a PC fan for *years*. YMMV, but over the last decade, it happened too many times to tolerate.
greg
If you buy a pc from an OEM like Dell you will likely have some bloatware installed on your machine. Boaltware typically includes stuff like free trials for antivirus software and office products, and while they do use some system resources if left installed (hard drive space) they are not malicious and will not cause issues. Boaltware can be removed fairly easily and you can tweak your system for that new OS smell just like you had a clean install.
As you use the PC you will install more software that you use. If you only install the stuff you need (like PS/LR/Office) there is no reason for the system to slow down. If you visit a lot of less than reputable sites and click "Yes" on every popup you encounter without running antimalware software, you will likely accumulate a ton of malware/spyware as well, and that will likely impact its performance. A PC won't slow down just because you have been using it for a few years running legitimate software.
schlotz wrote:
For me the one (and more expensive) issue will be the availability in the next 5 years of significantly improved pc's vs. today's and using apple, its a complete re-buy. That said, in the windows world, after five years the majority of the equipment will still have to be re-purchased. One could argue the reuse of certain equipment and in the end one is left with a pieced together system that most likely would not be optimal but that's a decision each person has to come to grips with.
Since Windows PCs and Macs today use the same hardware made by pretty much the same people, if your PC hardware is obsolete in 5 years, your Mac hardware will be obsolete in 5 years as well. If PCs and Macs today are built around the Socket 1155 interface with the Intel Z77 chipset and dual channel DDR3 memory interface, and 5 years down the road the world has moved on the (hypothetical) Socket 3024 hardware with the Intel PB92 chipset and the hex-channel DDR4 memory interface, you Mac from 2013 will be no more compatible with the future processors and memory dimms than a PC from 2013. And the new 2018 Mac will (likely) still cost a ton more than the new 2018 PC. Buying a Mac over a PC is not going to futureproof your workstation in any way. Just something to consider.
aubsxc wrote:
If you buy a pc from an OEM like Dell you will likely have some bloatware installed on your machine. Boaltware typically includes stuff like free trials for antivirus software and office products, and while they do use some system resources if left installed (hard drive space) they are not malicious and will not cause issues. Boaltware can be removed fairly easily and you can tweak your system for that new OS smell just like you had a clean install.
As you use the PC you will install more software that you use. If you only install the stuff you need (like PS/LR/Office) there is no reason for the system to slow down. If you visit a lot of less than reputable sites and click "Yes" on every popup you encounter without running antimalware software, you will likely accumulate a ton of malware/spyware as well, and that will likely impact its performance. A PC won't slow down just because you have been using it for a few years running legitimate software....Show more →
I certainly hear what you are saying, but, in reality, my experiences have been different. I used a PC for years for editing as well as (legitimate) web surfing and email - no shady sites, etc.
PCs *are* a target for maleware, spy-bots, spam, etc. It is well known that Mac computers use an OS that is inherently difficult to write spam script for.
It is the price I am willing to pay for a machine that will better thwart the scumbags that infect computers.
Again, I am speaking from years of experience. Same tasks, two different systems. Mac wins by miles.
YMMV, but a bit of Google searching will back up what I am saying.
gheller wrote:
PCs *are* a target for maleware, spy-bots, spam, etc. It is well known that Mac computers use an OS that is inherently difficult to write spam script for.
Spam has very little to do with OS and everything to do with how many people have access to your email address. If you have been having problems with spam in your mailbox it is likely because your email address has been distributed to multiple spam lists, and/or you have not set up your spam filters properly in your email program.
You are right that there is LOT more malware written for the Windows OS than there is for OSX, and that is because a vast majority of the world's computers run on Windows. OSX, which is based on Unix, is also theoretically more secure than Windows is, but that gap has narrowed a lot over the years. If you are running Windows it is essential to run antimalware software, to have your security set up right, and to be judicious about visiting unfamiliar websites and clicking on unfamiliar links. And if you are like me, confine all or most of your web browsing and internet activity to a virtual machine runnning Linux on a Windows host. It is trivially simple to do this nowadays, and the extra security you get with playing only in a tightly controlled sandbox makes you virtually impervious to the majority of malware out there.
It is the price I am willing to pay for a machine that will better thwart the scumbags that infect computers.
Makes sense to me.
Again, I am speaking from years of experience. Same tasks, two different systems. Mac wins by miles.
My personal experience has been quite different, but I certainly understand your point of view.
Never owned a PC. Have used Macs for about 15 years. Why did I start out with a Mac? They were used in my area by most schools, newspapers, and magazines because of their superior handling of images and they required less trouble-shooting. Nobody at my Mac Club or any other Mac owner I know of has ever had a virus on their Mac.
if your PC hardware is obsolete in 5 years, your Mac hardware will be obsolete in 5 years as well.
While your point about the two systems using the same hardware is correct, Macs hold their value in the resale market surprisingly well. Windows PCs don't.
BluesWest wrote:
While your point about the two systems using the same hardware is correct, Macs hold their value in the resale market surprisingly well. Windows PCs don't.
John
Macs are so overpriced that the ave. user has to settle for 5 year old obsolete hardware to join the club. Build a Hackintosh and you can join the club and use fast up to date hardware and truly enjoy OSX.
BluesWest wrote:
While your point about the two systems using the same hardware is correct, Macs hold their value in the resale market surprisingly well. Windows PCs don't.
John
That's actually a point I had come to realise after I started this thread . Almost like a good L lens , there is still alot of value in an imac when I come to the point of wanting a replacement .
And yeah I have considered a hackintosh . In fact I may do that anyway with my current PC . As far as I can tell most of the stuff is suitable now . That's not going to stop me diving into a real mac but its worth a play anyway .
Imagemaster wrote:
That's what I thought. A bonus for you.
Did you forget to answer that, or has the topic been closed?
just for your entertainment...the last 10 or so replies are about mac is better..pc is better...just like your input how you've never gotten a virus on a mac...my pc has never gotten a virus...so your mac is not any better. And Ian has plenty of feedback on hardware wise etc to go either route...and if people stay on topic ..lets continue with the discussion.
There are many more PCs in the world, hence they are more of a target for viruses and hacks. Macs didn't have viruses before..now they do as OSX and IOS gets into the mainstream and there is much more news about it..GIYF if you want to research.
I'm not sure what your personal attacks on me are about. I thought you were a standup guy, a very talented guy whose work i admired...but i guess your photographs are not your personality.
Sunny Sra wrote:
just for your entertainment...the last 10 or so replies are about mac is better..pc is better...just like your input how you've never gotten a virus on a mac...my pc has never gotten a virus...so your mac is not any better. And Ian has plenty of feedback on hardware wise etc to go either route...and if people stay on topic ..lets continue with the discussion.
Maybe you need to calm down and read what I wrote. Where did I say my Mac was any better? The OP asked for advice and that is what personal experiences are.
There are many more PCs in the world, hence they are more of a target for viruses and hacks. Macs didn't have viruses before..now they do as OSX and IOS gets into the mainstream and there is much more news about it..GIYF if you want to research.
And where did I say otherwise?
I'm not sure what your personal attacks on me are about. I thought you were a standup guy, a very talented guy whose work i admired...but i guess your photographs are not your personality.
Sorry you feel that way. Please quote my personal attacks.
Should I interpret your take pictures? reply to WAYCOOL as a personal attack on him?
Ian.Dobinson wrote:
That's actually a point I had come to realise after I started this thread . Almost like a good L lens , there is still alot of value in an imac when I come to the point of wanting a replacement .
There is some truth in this. I seem to remember doing the numbers a couple years ago and if you include Mac resale value the total cost of ownership for Mac vs PC is actually pretty similar. This does assume the Mac doesn't die though, which with the modern machines might not be such a good assumption as they are increasingly non-repairable. Couple the "sealed-unit device" approach to the newer machines with the commodity PC hardware from which they are assembled, and i don't think you can be so sure that an iMac you buy today will still be running 4-5 years from now.
As for viruses, well in general i take the view that you get what you click on. That said, MS have had a good number of exploits which didn't require user assistance. I know we get nicely virused in the labs i run every couple of years. Generally these are USB transmitted. Apple have had some negative publicity in the last few months also - several companies running Macs got hacked using an exploit that has been known for months but which Apple refused to patch. It was only when Apple themselves got hacked that they did something about the exploit. Not good publicity for them. Running a Unix underneath the hood does help with security on Apple machines, but there are still rootkits out there if you aren't updated, and if you have any unfirewalled exposure to the internet i can guarantee you will have several login attempts per minute to any services you are running (ssh, telnet etc). An easy passwd on one of them and you are compromised.
With Unix and Linux based machines, being compromised doesn't necessarily end in what the layman would call "viruses". Often they are turned into mail relays etc using legitimate OS programs and services (easy to do remotely once you have an admin logon), which might not result in a slowdown that you notice and can be very hard for the non-expert user to spot and clean-up.
