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Archive 2012 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?

  
 
Eyvind Ness
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p.3 #1 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Version 1 is spanked pretty hard by Version 2, I'd say. Here are real life data:

http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/2012/11/ef-24-70-vs-ef-24-70-ii-aperture-sharpness-comparison/



Nov 27, 2012 at 01:08 PM
robbymack
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p.3 #2 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


badlydrawnboy wrote:
Anyone know of a side-by-side comparison of the Canon 24-70 II and Tamron 24-70?


most reviewers put the tamron equal to slightly ahead of the canon 24-70i but behind the 24-70ii. I looked at both a few weeks back and decided to purchase the tamron is my new gp lens, the new canon wasn't IMHO worth the price difference especially without IS. The new canon was slightly faster in AF and a reasonable bit sharper than the tamron, but not enough to make me fork out another $1000 and not get IS. You can close the sharpness gap with a good afma adjustment of the tamron. You won't get all the way, but I doubt you'd really see the difference unless your looking at 100% crops all day and printing very large.



Nov 27, 2012 at 01:35 PM
badlydrawnboy
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p.3 #3 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Robby: one of the main criticisms I've heard of the Tamron is that it's considerably softer at 70mm wide open. That's a concern to me, because I'm sure I'll use it at the long end a lot. Did you notice that?


Nov 27, 2012 at 02:02 PM
robbymack
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p.3 #4 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Actually I found it to be pretty close to the 24-70ii at 70mm, the center of the 24-70ii across the spectrum is extremely sharp, but at least the copy I had got weak in the corners at 70 and that sort of tied it with the tamron. At 70 the tamron was not as sharp in the center, but the corners seemed better IMHO than the canon. I also do a lot at 70 as a short of ideal portrait length for my kids, but it's quicker than changing lenses. The tamron was it's best at 24 and at 70, across the rest of the range it sort of muddles through, nothing terrible, but nothing spectacular. If you demand pixel level sharpness everywhere then it's an easy choice, get the canon. If you think a little softness here and there doesn't kill an image and you think IS is a good feature (and you like the feel of another $1000 in your pocket) then get the tamron.

I think you're shooting on a 5diii, which also has the advantage of afma for both the wide and tele ends of the zoom range. I think you should be able to get the tamron pretty close to the sharpness of the canon with a program like Focal. Id also recommend you rent both lenses, borrowlenses.com in the bay area is great and easy to use.



Nov 27, 2012 at 02:13 PM
AGeoJO
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p.3 #5 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Marco wrote:
Just got the 24-70 II for the same reason... flexibility in photographing my little baby


Your baby is cute and very happy , Marco!

Ironimage wrote:
I can't see putting all my glass eggs in one zoom basket, not without compromise at least. I have the original 24-70 and use it quite a bit because of its flexibility and image quality, what holds me back from upgrading is the feeling that another $1500 (if I sold my mk1 and bought the mark2) for what seems like a 3-5% improvement in IQ is very poor value. I can't imagine my clients being able to discern the difference in IQ that would result, but they would certainly notice the difference in pricing that it would need to cause.



badlydrawnboy wrote:
Where do you get the 3-5% number? I was under the impression from reading the reviews that the 24-70 II spanks the original quite handily. It's also lighter and more compact, which means a lot to me.


See, that varies individually. If you have to pay $1,000 more for the Canon Mark II copy, to some the difference and not only in image quality but also in other features, may be worth the price difference but for sure it doesn't apply universally to others. It is really difficult to put a $-value into something intangible like that. Since a rental copy is coming your way, why don't you evaluate the lens yourself and decide whether it is worth it or not. To answer your original question though, like many already pointed out, there will be cases where fast primes may save the day but the zoom is definitely more flexible. Life, photography life in this case is full of compromises, no ifs and buts about it.



Nov 27, 2012 at 02:16 PM
badlydrawnboy
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p.3 #6 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Thanks. I did rent the 24-70 II from LensRentals. I didn't know BorrowLenses was in the Bay Area; I probably would have paid less in shipping. Maybe I'll use them to rent the Tamron after I'm done with the Canon.

I don't care much about corner sharpness, since I'm mostly shooting portraits and I will often apply a vignette or burn the edges in post-production. However, I do care a lot about sharpness in the center of the frame at all focal lengths.

Will be an interesting comparison.



Nov 27, 2012 at 02:17 PM
robbymack
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p.3 #7 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


badlydrawnboy wrote:
Thanks. I did rent the 24-70 II from LensRentals. I didn't know BorrowLenses was in the Bay Area; I probably would have paid less in shipping. Maybe I'll use them to rent the Tamron after I'm done with the Canon.

I don't care much about corner sharpness, since I'm mostly shooting portraits and I will often apply a vignette or burn the edges in post-production. However, I do care a lot about sharpness in the center of the frame at all focal lengths.

Will be an interesting comparison.


they are great and have a bunch of local pick ups so you don't have to deal with shipping if you don't want to. That being said since you want center sharpness all over the range save the money on the rental (you're going to need it), just buy the canon.



Nov 27, 2012 at 02:25 PM
Ironimage
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p.3 #8 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


I've looked at the Reikanfocal comparison data and it should be noted that with any analysis of data like this, you really need to look at the distribution of data and not just the extreme values. If you discard the extreme highs and lows of both the mark 1 and mark 2 results, the comparison of the average is much closer.

Granted if you're going from the worst mark1 to the best mark2, there may be a substantial difference, noticeable to the layman in the customer chair. The reality is more likely to be somewhat more modest in difference.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as excited about new product and improved results, but with my mark1's results afma'd on my 5d3 in reikanfocal, I can't see the ROI in the short term at the introductory price point.

With regards to the reduced weight, for myself it isn't an issue handling wise and I actually prefer less plastic and more metal in the construction. I can understand how weight can be an issue for others or at different points in their shooting career.



Nov 27, 2012 at 03:58 PM
skibum5
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p.3 #9 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


badlydrawnboy wrote:
Thanks. I did rent the 24-70 II from LensRentals. I didn't know BorrowLenses was in the Bay Area; I probably would have paid less in shipping. Maybe I'll use them to rent the Tamron after I'm done with the Canon.

I don't care much about corner sharpness, since I'm mostly shooting portraits and I will often apply a vignette or burn the edges in post-production. However, I do care a lot about sharpness in the center of the frame at all focal lengths.

Will be an interesting comparison.


24-70 II is mad sharp center frame at all focal lengths, although as said above by myself and others, once you start getting more and more away from 24mm the edges and corners get a little softer and at 70mm they don't match any of the 70-200/300 variants in the corners or at the edges but it does easily beat those center frame 70mm, most of the copies I saw were better at f/2.8 70mm center frame than the others at f/4 or even f/4.5 and even the worst was merely about the same as the 70-200 f/4 IS at 70mm center frame. There seems to be a lot of copy to copy variation in where the dof is placed at the edges and corners with the 24-70 II and it seems hard to find one that places everything in a 100% balanced and generous DOF fashion, the one that came the closest to that was also the one that was less sharp center frame 70mm wide open! Maybe with 6 or 7 copies you'd get a perfect 70mm wide open and perfect balance among all corners. That said, even with the variation, most of them still hold up pretty well against the wide and mid-wide primes which could not be said about even the best 24-70 I or 24-105.




Nov 27, 2012 at 03:59 PM
skibum5
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p.3 #10 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Distortion at 35mm on the 24-70 II is actually very low and the CA even in the extreme corners at 35mm is almost non-existant, flipping CA removal on and off in ACR at 100% view I didn't really even see anything happen while just taking a peak at a 35mm f/7.1 shot of tons of fine branches and twigs against a white snowy sky. Looks crisp edge to edge and nearly corner to corner (just a touch soft way, way deep in two of the corners, perfect edge to edge otherwise).

Definitely replacing my 24 1.4 II.


Edited on Nov 28, 2012 at 02:45 AM · View previous versions



Nov 27, 2012 at 11:37 PM
Tom Dix
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p.3 #11 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Great studio lens; certainly not replacing my 24, 35 or 50, however it is a terrific 2,8 zoom.


Nov 28, 2012 at 12:42 AM
kevindar
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p.3 #12 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Late to the party.
the question is, how many fewer or more magical moments of your daughter are you going to capture by switching.
I think the 24-70 2.8 II makes a phenomenol landscape lens, b/c of its corner to corner sharpness stopped down, and relatively controlled distortion (for a zoom). I think it makes an excellent but very overpriced taking pictures of my daughter lens. people pictures/portraits should have good sharpness, but no need to see every pore on the skin. do you own a 70-200 2.8 IS lens? if not, I would buy that before the 24-70 as a portrait lens, and keep my primes in wider range.
I have two daughters, 5 years and 5 months old, and for several years have owned 35 1.4, 50 1.4 (sigma) and 85 1.2, as well as 70-200 2.8 IS, as well as an excellent copy of 28-70 2.8L and have used my primes far more, followed by the 70-200. and one if it has been b/c image quality of one is suprior to the others. I find the sharpness to be more than adequate on all of those.
I think if you wanted a zoom in that range, I would buy the tamron vc now. maybe sell the 35 L in favor of the new sigma 35, though that would only net you around 150. I think for your intended purpose, if you have to sell your 85L to aquire the 24-70 II, you are spending too much for that lens.



Nov 28, 2012 at 03:02 AM
badlydrawnboy
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p.3 #13 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


kevindar wrote:
Late to the party.
the question is, how many fewer or more magical moments of your daughter are you going to capture by switching.
I think the 24-70 2.8 II makes a phenomenol landscape lens, b/c of its corner to corner sharpness stopped down, and relatively controlled distortion (for a zoom). I think it makes an excellent but very overpriced taking pictures of my daughter lens. people pictures/portraits should have good sharpness, but no need to see every pore on the skin. do you own a 70-200 2.8 IS lens? if not, I would buy that before the 24-70 as a portrait
...Show more

Thanks, that's helpful. I wonder if you and I don't have different styles of taking kid pictures, though. I often find that 85mm is too tight, and don't find myself using the 85 much for that reason. I much prefer "environmental" portraits with more context/background, so I find myself using the 35 or 50 way more often. I don't think I'd have much use for a 70-200 right now, though I imagine that will change as my daughter grows up and becomes even more mobile.

I've already decided to keep the 35L or replace it with the Sigma 35. If I do replace it, I'd net about $150 as you suggest but that wouldn't be my motivation. I'd only replace it if I thought the Sigma was significantly better.

If I get the Canon 24-70 II, and I sell the 85L, I think I'd be able to stretch and pick up the Sigma 85 instead. Most seem to think that it's nearly the equal of the 85L, and has better AF to boot, so I'm not sure that's a terrible idea. I already have the 50/1.4, which I chose to keep over the 50L because I couldn't justify the price difference between the two.

On the other hand, if I go with the Tamron 24-70 I could probably keep both the 35L and 85L in addition to the 50/1.4.

In either case, I'd have a high quality 24-70 zoom, two very high quality primes (35 & 85), and a lightweight, compact prime (50/1.4) that isn't spectacular but gets the job done.



Nov 28, 2012 at 08:47 AM
R. Eisenberg
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p.3 #14 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


AGeoJO wrote:
Your baby is cute and very happy , Marco!



+1
Couldn't think of better publicity for the lens !!



Nov 28, 2012 at 09:21 AM
dmcharg
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p.3 #15 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


I used to own 17-40 F4L, 35F1.4LL, 135F2L, 85 1.8 & 70-200F4L but i ended up selling them and moving to the 24-70 F2.8L MKI & 70-200 F2.8L MKII. Everyone is different but in the end i found any differences in IQ between the primes and zooms to be small enough that the flexibility of the zoom was far more important. I found F2.8 was fast enough for my needs whilst maintaining a reasonable depth of field. If you need faster than F2.8 then a prime is your only option but other than that the zoom is far more flexible especially when photographing kids. I spent some time and learned how to use a flash properly and it has made all the difference, when light is so low that F2.8 isnt fast enough i prefer to use a bounced flash and still have a decent DOF. If you still have to have something faster than F2.8 then you always have 50 1.4.

I held of buying the 24-70 for a long time because of mixed reviews. On a crop body i find it works perfectly for me for indoors especially for kids. Having 70 and 2.8 is great for close in shots but having the flexibility to zoom out is just so useful with fast moving kids. On too may occasions i missed shots because i was using the 35 or 85 indoors and didn't have the flexibility of the zoom, either that i was busy changing lens and then the moment has past.



Nov 28, 2012 at 03:29 PM
Tapeman
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p.3 #16 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Consider the 24-105L. When I photograph my grandchildren I find that the increased range outweighs my other considerations. Keep your primes for when you can control the situation and throw on the 24-105 and keep it handy the rest of the time.


Nov 28, 2012 at 04:51 PM
badlydrawnboy
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p.3 #17 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Just got the 24-70 II from LensRentals. Wow. I can't believe how sharp it is. Haven't even uploaded the photos to my computer yet, but looking at them on my 5D3 screen I can't see much of a difference at f/2.8 between it and my 35L and 85L. Really impressive. Also very fast AF, smooth handling and actually lighter and more compact than I was expecting.

It's been so long since I've used a zoom, I forgot how convenient they can be. I was working in close taking a bunch of pictures of my daughter, and I got several I wouldn't have been able to get had I been using a prime.

I still want to compare this with the Tamron, but at this point I'm definitely leaning toward keeping a 24-70.



Nov 28, 2012 at 05:26 PM
BiggHarry
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p.3 #18 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


Tom Dix wrote:
Great studio lens; certainly not replacing my 24, 35 or 50, however it is a terrific 2,8 zoom.


+100
I love this lens but it is not a replacement for the primes when one needs f1.2 - f2.7



Nov 28, 2012 at 07:01 PM
vchowdhary
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p.3 #19 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


If this was a replacement for primes, I would just stick to Nikon and its excellent 24-70
Only reason to want to shoot Canon are the L primes.



Nov 29, 2012 at 12:42 PM
t_streng
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p.3 #20 · Is the 24-70 II really a "prime killer"?


I also have 2 young kids and just got a 5dIII because I wanted a camera with fast AF.
And because I allways found images from the 50 and 85/1.2 to be special.
I decided for the 24-70II Canon and the 50/1.2 and 135/2.0.

I think for walks outside, for kiddy birthday parties and the playground the flexibility of the 24-70 is great.
You can go from 24mm for landscape (f2.8 is all you need here) to 70mm for portraits.
The AF of the lens is very fast which is great as well.

When taking images of the kids with a prime 50mm is my prefered focal length. 85mm is too long for my taste because I am often too close to the kids. And 35mm is not so great if you shoot portrait images.
So if I have a little more time and if I dont need the flexibility of the zoom I like the 50 and shooting it at f1.2 and f1.4

I really love the combo so far.
The 24-70 for me is like a 24,35,50 and 70mm prime but adds a lot of flexibility.
A 50 fast prime is so flexible that you can do many things with it.



Nov 29, 2012 at 02:36 PM
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