swoop wrote:
And at another wedding I was doing formals and the father of the bride had me photograph every group pose with his phone.
I had one damn Uncle Bob follow me along to the park pictures after the ceremony. He didn't say a word to me but he was shooting over my shoulder every shot. I didn't like it one bit as it made me feel a bit uncomfortable but I didn't really know anything I could say, either. It's so hard in those situations to say something to a family member to get them to stop and not come off sounding like a dick.
D. Diggler wrote:
In my experience, Uncle Bobs are usually using consumer-level gear but last weekend I worked this high-end gig where everyone had money. Had to deal with THREE Uncle Bobs - each one using pro-grade gear including Speedlights. Oh ... and atleast one of them was crouching down (like a stereotypical "pro") when he was taking dance floor shots at the reception.
P.S. I never crouch.
true UB shoot Leica M9's ... now we are talking! Yea Baby!
I make a point of going up to these people and asking them to stay out of my shots. So far they have always complied. It makes them more aware that they need to watch what I am doing and not simply focus on the picture they want to take.
The biggest problem I find is with the people with phone cameras and P&S as they will stand for minutes composing the shot in the viewfinder, take the picture, and then stand for more minutes looking at the picture. I have had women block the processional for several minutes with their little cameras and there is nothing I can do about it. This is where having the officiant ask people to turn off their phones and put away their cameras until the reception is a great help when you can get them to do this.
If someone is within arms length I will move them aside if necessary as it is my job to get the picture and I don't really care if a discourteous guest might get miffed.
Like jforkner, I'm no wedding photographer but having been a groom, I have an opinion. Lots of the discussion of Uncle Bobs that I've read comes across like a superiority complex for something that is ultimately the decision of the bride & groom.
I'm curious for those who have had so many frustrating UB moments, in how many of those cases did you discuss the consequences prior to the wedding with the B&G? If it's that big a deal then I'd hope it's close t 100%. As the employer it is their choice whether to accept or reject those consequences, equally giving you a chance to refuse the contract if you disagree.
In my wedding, we had a few UBs. Some of my favorite pictures came from them because they captured various moments the professional photographer would and could not, such as what the guests were doing while we were doing formals. You'd say "well that's not an UB if they're not overlooking your shoulder" but those same folks were being UBs at other times, so they were.
Maybe it wasn't a big deal for us because our wedding party all knew that when the camera comes up, you look at the pro until he's done, then eyes can scatter to whomever else you want.
In the end, our photographer got paid the same regardless of UB and we for the most part got what we wanted from our photographer. None of what our photographer lacked could in any way be attributed to UB, it was his own fault.
Squirrely Eyed wrote:
Like jforkner, I'm no wedding photographer...
Then you have no idea how frustrating Uncle Bob's can be.
Almost all UB's I dealt with were great. I tried to work with them. Get a bad one though and they can make your day miserable no matter how nice or how great a photographer you are.
Squirrely Eyed wrote:
I'm no wedding photographer but having been a groom, I have an opinion. Lots of the discussion of Uncle Bobs that I've read comes across like a superiority complex for something that is ultimately the decision of the bride & groom.
There seem to be two camps when it comes to the opinion of guest photographers. One is that they're the bane of the business, the other is that if you're a pro you should be able to just deal with it.
Now any pro can deal with it and work around it, but no one can ignore the fact that having some over enthusiastic photography buff with a camera severely limits the options of the pro photographer. It's undeniable, if uncle Bob is photographing standing in the middle of the aisle, which is likely the best vantage point, well that eliminates the possibility of the professional shooting there and the pro now has to work around this person eliminating a slew of options.
And for formals it can be frustrating to the professional because you do get wandering eyes. It's a horrible look to have people looking in different directions. Another frustration is that a lot of experience and effort goes into posing. It's a skill, I teach workshops on it and it's kinda irritating to have someone come over our shoulder and steal that shot. Especially in an age where "everyone" with $3k to spare claims to be a professional, you know they are going to show that photo off and take credit for that work when they had nothing to do with it. They are selling themselves without having those vital ancillary skills that make someone truly a professional. They're stealing the professionals talent and taking the credit for it.
I don't have any provisions in my contract about guest photographers. I think it's wrong. If their cousin or bff or uncle wants to take pictures of them that's fine. But it's that one apple that ruins the bunch that's really annoying. That one guy who constantly gets in the way. Those guys are becoming more and more commonplace. I tell my clients, and that's what brides and grooms are, they're clients/customers, not employers. Employers set policies. Clients deal with them. I tell them it's fine if their cousin wants to take photos, but they have to understand it may have an impact on the quality of the work and number of images delivered. I also tell them it's not my place to tell their family no. During formals if Uncle Bob wants to take a photo he's free to do so. But I will not take one until he is done. I stand aside, hold my camera and wait. It's their time he's taking up, I've already been paid for mine.
dmacmillan wrote:
Then you have no idea how frustrating Uncle Bob's can be.
Almost all UB's I dealt with were great. I tried to work with them. Get a bad one though and they can make your day miserable no matter how nice or how great a photographer you are.
I have much appreciation for how frustrating Uncle Bobs can be without being a wedding photographer. Just because I'm not one doesn't mean I don't understand (at least some of) the challenges, frustrations, and downright annoyances.
Swoop,
I appreciate your insight. Perhaps using the term "employer" is a bit strong but the relationship isn't such that the photographer dictates all the policy either. It is (or should be, in my mind) a mutual relationship. I feel in the case of an UB that it is the B&G's ultimate choice and it is the photographer's duty to explain it to the B&G. It's their choice if for no other reason than if they disagree with your policies, they can go contract somebody else....maybe even their uncle, uncle Bob.
I often see comments that imply the B&G should be intimately familiar with the wedding photography industry, the perspective of the photographer, yadda yadda yadda. It's just not realistic to expect that unless you know a pro wedding photographer has taken them to school a bit.
As a groom, if you tell me that you want to be the only person shooting at the wedding, I may or may not hire you. If I do, I will do something to make guests aware that there are times that their cameras are welcome and times they are not. If you don't tell me then I will also take no action to control it unless I feel it is likely to become disruptive or I witness disruption.
I can't stand eyes pointing in different directions and I would be more than happy to hear a photographer yell out to the wedding party "Hey, when we're doing this, I focus on you and you focus on me, ignore the paparazzi". But that's just me.
I do feel it is (un)common courtesy to yield to the professionals even if I want to get my private view, and this goes well beyond photography. You're out there to do a job, I'm just there to have fun & capture some moments for myself.
Oh ... and atleast one of them was crouching down (like a stereotypical "pro") when he was taking dance floor shots at the reception.