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Archive 2012 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?

  
 
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p.2 #1 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


Coincidence! He just had an interview published in Photo Professional, a UK mag, and he went into the "one image per scene" thing there too...








Aug 09, 2012 at 07:16 AM
JoeMelzer
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p.2 #2 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


The more weddings I shoot, the less images I deliver: quality over quantity. Anyway, it's still in the 300-800 realm. And I think it ought to be there:

Of course, to document _the wedding_ you only need one image per scene. But isn't it more than that? I think it's about people you haven't seen for a long time, your grand parents in grand dresses, the little things not captured by "ordinary people" (in no way meant disrespectful, but you get the idea), emotions, details. So, yes to the 30 important images. But should you not deliver more than just the wedding because you _see_ more?



Aug 09, 2012 at 07:47 AM
Kittyk
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p.2 #3 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


if i once find a couple who would be happy with 20-30 photos, regardless of how good they are?

always keep in mind this real life situation:
That shot number 601 you made when the bride's neighbor granny was smiling as bride was struggling with her dress, that shot which you was going to delete and never show to couple because of 3 minutes of effort to retouch it, became 3 years later the most valued shot bride got of her early deceased friend.
Now wipe the tears, wake from your lazy ass, and deliver the goods and keep to shoot everything nice which happens around you.
If there is only one nice moment at each part of the wedding day? well then i would hate to have your clients.

Proudly madly delivered 15000+ photos since january 2012 and still have many weddings open.

*walks away from a bar, like a boss*



Aug 09, 2012 at 08:55 AM
DmitriM
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p.2 #4 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


If I am inviting 100 people for my wedding and they are all family and live overseas or far away, I would be expecting more than 100 images from reception alone and hopefully photos of each of them in one way or another.

I don't believe you can get a full story of a wedding in 50 pictures. I don't care how good YOU think you are. That's just bad journalism and lazy work ethics. I can explain more if anyone wants.

And why take 2000-3000 images and deliver 200. I find it crazy. That's spray and pray at its finest! 200 good images out of 3000 is not something to be proud of...



Aug 09, 2012 at 10:24 AM
TRReichman
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p.2 #5 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


DmitriM wrote:
I don't believe you can get a full story of a wedding in 50 pictures. I don't care how good YOU think you are. That's just bad journalism and lazy work ethics. I can explain more if anyone wants.


I'd like to hear more.

- trr



Aug 09, 2012 at 11:00 AM
DmitriM
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p.2 #6 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


Lets take my typical wedding of 12 hours.

Getting ready:
1. some photos of the dress, girls,bride,parents around their daughter. Some hugs,kisses and real emotion as they see their daughter. Perhaps gift exchanges and all the emotion during it. Same for the for the groom. Here are ~ 40-50 pictures already. Many clients I photograph decorate their homes beautifully and want pictures of that too. You can't do all that with 20+ pictures per couple

Church:Bridal party is there for a reason and they buy expensive dresses/suits and they would want a few photos. Procession. Emotions of the groom standing there. Some churches are really beautiful and cost a lot of money. Some photos of the interior during the ceremony. Ring exchanges, kiss, emotions of parents,grandparents and perhaps friends. Maybe a few photos of the guests who came to the church. Maybe even exterior. 20-30 images are needed for all of that.

Then goes a creative session. Say it's an hour long(I normally get up to 4,but it's typically 1 for a lot of people). bride,groom,bridal party,a few portraits with parents
30 images

Reception part: They paid a lot of money for flowers,decor,cake and want a few photos to remember it all. Then there's dancing of the bride&groom, then with parents then speeches, emotion during speeches and laughs of all the family members. Then dancing starts and I do want to see happy images of all my family members. I want to see them enjoying themselves, maybe dancing with b&g. Some couples take dancing lessons and do a few of them during the day. Some guest come in out of the country and b/g having seen them in many years. I am sure they'd want a few photographs with them as well or at least see them i photographs 60-100 images.


Bottom line: there are a lot of small details during a wedding that are important to the bride and groom. "Look, in this photo you were in church and in that photo you dancing and that's it" is when a photographer is unable to see details or even understand what wedding is and what really happens during it. I could personally care less about flowers and decor,but then I know it's important for them as they pay a lot of money for all that stuff and spent countless of hours looking for it.
Women also tend to be very critical towards themselves. They have good sides and bad sides.They have angles they like and hate and sometimes giving an extra angle on what seems to be the same freaking picture really makes a difference to them! You want your clients to refer you so the end result has to be good enough or they will not be happy. If clients won't like how they look on half of those 50 pictures, they won't be happy at all!!
Just had a client who had things flown from Italy for a wedding(groom and bride's attire) then jewelery from a well known designer ,custom made cufflinks with logos of bride and groom,gold sprinkled flowers.Wedding dress had laces with bride's and groom's names embroidered. It's only makes sense that they wanted pictures of that. What did I have to say,
"I am sorry,but I can only give you 50 pictures so those will probably won't make it"??

"And that picture of you hugging your grandmother that you haven't seen for 5 Years and that died after the wedding...well, I didn't think it fit your wedding story or my style of shooting so I wasn't taking any pictures during that time".
"Neither was I taking pictures during the time you were playing with your nieces".

Sure, there will be clients that will get that photographer who only gives 50 photos or only 10 photos,but that's very rare, because most people care enough about pictures and memories to need more. Most clients that I photograph don't hire videographers(sometimes because I ask them...) so it is my job to document the day so that 10,30,50 years from their wedding day they can look at each image and recall things that happen during the day and have pictures of those who are dear to them.

I think that makes sense.






Aug 09, 2012 at 12:08 PM
Kittyk
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p.2 #7 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


DmitriM i am with you, some people obviously forgetting that wedding journalism is not for their own presentation but to make the couple happy.

Of course 50 image set looks good on website and facebook, where you expect to see just a tease, but everybody who says he would like to have photographer taking in average one nice photo per quarter of a hour simply lies.
Such coverage would inevitably also look that he is 99% of the time sitting somewhere or waiting for rainbow and unicorns come, because those 50 photos would he made already in most important parts of the day.

and if anybody believes that on even 10 people wedding there is no beautiful scene for 15 long minutes in average (!)? well then it is sad. Really? What do those guy sells? Group shots?
For one of the july weddings i processed only 130 random photos so far (yes, i am late), and from that already came 7 canvases, thank you cards, and 54 prints in various sizes, all different images.

I am all against spray and praying, i deliver 80-90% of shots made during the day, but i simply cannot live without every single one.

p.s. i understand the free market rules: if you inform the couple about it, and they are fine, it is purely one's choice. But based on my experience, couples do not know how many photos they need until it is too late.
I had couples telling me on meeting that around 60 was enough, then after 700 they asked when rest will come that it made them depending.



Aug 09, 2012 at 02:24 PM
Ian Ivey
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p.2 #8 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


This perceived "need" for 500 or more images is less than 10 years old, and is a product of two things: 1) a shift to digital photography that reduced the marginal cost of one additional image to just a few cents, and 2) the widespread amateur use of cameras and social media to document and publish everything. These aren't bad things, they're just new.

Just thirty years ago, delivering 300 images from a wedding was a huge volume. And good photographers achieved fantastic results with 100-150 images. Even 150 was a lot for the couple to sort through.

150 is still a lot for the couple to sort through. More than that is literally impossible to digest or keep in your head -- they blur together in the mind so much that they lose their power.

Technology makes it possible to deliver 500 images, or 1000, or 2000. We can easily think of a list of 500 things to photograph, any one of which could be a lovely image to have. But the collection of every conceivable individually valuable image from a wedding day is not inherently more valuable than a collection of 50 of those images.

At some point -- some number higher than 50 and probably lower than 200 -- the next additional image intrudes on the vital role of the imagination in remembering the wedding.



Aug 09, 2012 at 02:35 PM
DmitriM
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p.2 #9 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


Ian Ivey wrote:
This perceived "need" for 500 or more images is less than 10 years old, and is a product of two things: 1) a shift to digital photography that reduced the marginal cost of one additional image to just a few cents, and 2) the widespread amateur use of cameras and social media to document and publish everything. These aren't bad things, they're just new.

Just thirty years ago, delivering 300 images from a wedding was a huge volume. And good photographers achieved fantastic results with 100-150 images. Even 150 was a lot for the couple to sort through.

150 is
...Show more


If I would photograph the way photographers photographed 30 years ago then I would not deliver more than 200 images as well....

Let's not forget the fact that things changes since then.
30 years ago most of the wedding photographs were "traditional" with a few candids.
I deliver more than 100 photographs from an engagement session and I believe each photo belongs there. I'd be really upset at myself if I couldn't come up with 100 very good photographs in 3 hours. In Europe, it's quite common to deliver 20-30 photos from an engagement session,which is quite sad.That's an image every 9 minutes and I can only guess those photographer just walk to other location during that time.



Aug 09, 2012 at 03:00 PM
Ian Ivey
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p.2 #10 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


I'd be really upset at myself if I couldn't come up with 100 very good photographs in 3 hours. In Europe, it's quite common to deliver 20-30 photos from an engagement session,which is quite sad.

Interesting. I make it a goal never to produce more than 30 images from an engagement session.



Aug 09, 2012 at 03:05 PM
Kittyk
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p.2 #11 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


every time i question the amount of photos, i have in mind the comment one bride made:

"without you, i would not have those photos"

that is very powerful.

and regarding the film, we delivered even on film more then 50 photos. It was just more complicated. I carried sometimes even 4 cameras with me and i lost lot of chances in "waiting for the best one (which never came)" being shy to "waste" those remaining 8 frames in fear that i would not have time to swap.



Aug 09, 2012 at 03:05 PM
DmitriM
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p.2 #12 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


Ian Ivey wrote:
Interesting. I make it a goal never to produce more than 30 images from an engagement session.

I took a look at your site Ian and I'd consider you a traditional photographer. With that said, more than 30 photographs from an engagement session would be too much. Not a lot of people are into it these days,but it's great you are making it work and still able to find enough clients to run a very successful full time wedding photography business.



Aug 09, 2012 at 03:23 PM
TRReichman
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p.2 #13 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


DmitriM wrote:
Let's not forget the fact that things changes since then.
30 years ago most of the wedding photographs were "traditional" with a few candids.
I deliver more than 100 photographs from an engagement session and I believe each photo belongs there. I'd be really upset at myself if I couldn't come up with 100 very good photographs in 3 hours. In Europe, it's quite common to deliver 20-30 photos from an engagement session,which is quite sad.That's an image every 9 minutes and I can only guess those photographer just walk to other location during that time.


Now we're getting to the point where "very good" differs from person to person. The second issue would be what the client is going to do with 100 images. Then again if clients want to spend multiple hours being shot perhaps quantity is the order of the day.

- trr



Aug 09, 2012 at 03:38 PM
Kittyk
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p.2 #14 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


yea, hard caps are what we love the most.
Sorry customer, your download limit is done.

Dear bride, i know you are dancing cute, but hourly cap limit's on, try again hour later. And tell the granny to give you the present right after that because you reaching the whole day limit as well.

that is exactly why so many people bring cameras on the wedding - they just do not trust photographers (and rightfully in many occasions as we see) to document the day "good enough" for people involved.



Aug 09, 2012 at 03:43 PM
Ian Ivey
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p.2 #15 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


Kittyk wrote:
"without you, i would not have those photos"
that is very powerful.


Kitty, I think you are thoughtful and careful about serving your clients. You and I think a lot alike in terms of delivering value to the client. Our approaches may differ, but I always appreciate your value statements here.

And I also enjoy your posts because I often have to read them several times to understand them, and the syntax is a pleasant puzzle to solve.

Dmitri wrote:
Not a lot of people are into it these days,but it's great you are making it work and still able to find enough clients

It's possible there's a big difference between the US market and your market in this regard. I'm not seeing a lot of people come in with strong expectations about the number of images from the engagement shoot one way or the other.

Probably this is because the utility of engagement-shoot images is limited, because the shoot is contrived -- you're not documenting an important event (unless you're hired in advance to shoot the proposal itself).

By the way, Dmitri, I'm not critical of your style or approach to delivering images. I'm only arguing that 500+ images not the only effective way to tell the story of a wedding day powerfully and to the delight of the clients.

Indeed, I do tend to deliver 400-600 images. But I have this nagging suspicion that I'd produce a better product for my clients if I were delivering closer to 200.



Aug 09, 2012 at 03:51 PM
DmitriM
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p.2 #16 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


TRReichman wrote:
The second issue would be what the client is going to do with 100 images. Then again if clients want to spend multiple hours being shot perhaps quantity is the order of the day.

- trr


Same thing as they'd do with 20 photos -enjoy them and the memories that happened WHILE creating those images.

package a: 45 minutes -20 photographs @ $1000
package b: 3 hours - 100 photographs @ 1000
package c: 3 hours - 20 photographs @ 1000

Why have 20 photos when you can have 100. It's obvious 99.9% of all people would chose b. seems like common sense especially if that will give them 80 more good photographs.

1 in 4 of my Engagement clients are extending their sessions as they are having a lot of fun and are able to see what photographs are being delivered.



Aug 09, 2012 at 04:34 PM
TRReichman
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p.2 #17 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


Different strokes and what not. None of the people I work with would opt for option b or c. Good thing we're both out there in the market then.

- trr



Aug 09, 2012 at 04:57 PM
tobicus
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p.2 #18 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


Ian Ivey wrote:
This perceived "need" for 500 or more images is less than 10 years old, and is a product of two things: 1) a shift to digital photography that reduced the marginal cost of one additional image to just a few cents, and 2) the widespread amateur use of cameras and social media to document and publish everything. These aren't bad things, they're just new.

Just thirty years ago, delivering 300 images from a wedding was a huge volume. And good photographers achieved fantastic results with 100-150 images. Even 150 was a lot for the couple to sort through.

150 is
...Show more

I agree with you here. Personally, I'd love it if we got down to delivering somewhere around 200 images or so for a full day wedding, but right now, we deliver around 550, which is in large part because I have a lot of difficulty culling.

What I really enjoy is going through the selection process for the blog, however. We don't blog every wedding we shoot, but when we do blog a wedding, it's around 130 images, which I love, as I feel it's a great length for storytelling. And when I'm done with a blog, I don't feel like much is missing, even though it's only showing 1/4 of the pictures. And that's a good feeling.



Aug 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM
Bearmann
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p.2 #19 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


Personally, I would be pissed if the photographer delivered 2000 photos to me. During the interview, all I heard about was his/her vision etc. etc., then he/she didn't even go to the trouble to cull out the bad ones. Now I'm doing the work I paid the photographer for!


Aug 10, 2012 at 11:45 PM
Nektario K
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p.2 #20 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?


The last thing I do is count. I just shoot I ll shoot much more in the PJ style than the portraits of course..albiet I have been shooting way too much lately altogether..I dunno what's happened.. I just see every moment I shoot as important..and Now I have a trigger index reaction.. I'll shoot that same perfect portrait at least three times.. and yes sometimes I am glad I did..for an x amount of reasons, blinking etc.. But lately I have reach 1200 even 1500. Then with the 'culling' (first time I use this word)... I ll take out whatever is not good..but I never suggest a x amount to clients...


Aug 11, 2012 at 12:19 AM
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