garyvot wrote:
That's because the whole concept of 'auto' and 'manual' don't go together. You can't tell the camera to vary the ISO speed automatically, then expect it to hold the ISO speed invariant while you change the aperture or shutter speed, as if it somehow should magically know what you want.
You'd have to have some form of exposure compensation setting, but for ISO speed. As there is no physical way to apply exposure compensation in manual mode (the QCD is taken), exactly how would you tell the camera to "compensate" the ISO speed setting? Canon would have to add an entirely new exposure compensation mechanism to its camera bodies for this, similar to FEC.
I'm not convinced it's a worthwhile effort, with all the ways photographers already have to make exposures... but maybe I'm just too old school.
this is where Artificial Intelligence will come in... one day... by taking notes of my first 1000 shots... the camera will know my taste and my likings.... unless... my wife somehow gets hold of my camera without me knowing
so, before AI in my camera... I'll need passcode protection to access my camera... retina scan will do through eyecup.
The whole looking for fault in your Canon gear and then beating to death for page after page. It is strange the Nikon forums do not suffer from this neurosis even though they experience issues (one side of the AF not matching the other, poor Live Live, etc) with their gear. Canon shooters seem to have an inferiority complex.
As for auto ISO in M - the problem is that this is a new, very useful, mode that Canon have not caught up on - perhaps because it was meaningless in the context of film. As many have pointed out, this is not really M mode but is an additional semi-auto mode - just like Av and Tv.
In Av, you set aperture and ISO and the camera chooses shutter speed. If you're not happy with the exposure then you use exposure compensation to adjust shutter speed.
In Tv, you set shutter speed and ISO and the camera chooses aperture. If you're not happy with the exposure then you use exposure compensation to adjust aperture.
What I want is Iv mode where you set aperture and shutter speed and the camera chooses ISO. If you're not happy with the exposure then you use exposure compensation to adjust ISO.
omarlyn wrote:
Related to the above...Kirk vs Picard!
Omar
Kirk was a slut. How many blue alien women did he screw? In STTNG, Riker got to be the slut, but at least he was a gentleman and stayed the night before ditching the blue alien.
garyvot wrote:
That's because the whole concept of 'auto' and 'manual' don't go together. You can't tell the camera to vary the ISO speed automatically, then expect it to hold the ISO speed invariant while you change the aperture or shutter speed, as if it somehow should magically know what you want.
You'd have to have some form of exposure compensation setting, but for ISO speed. As there is no physical way to apply exposure compensation in manual mode (the QCD is taken), exactly how would you tell the camera to "compensate" the ISO speed setting? Canon would have to add an entirely new exposure compensation mechanism to its camera bodies for this, similar to FEC.
I'm not convinced it's a worthwhile effort, with all the ways photographers already have to make exposures... but maybe I'm just too old school.
"Manual" mode is called manual due to legacy. Nothing was auto selected. User selected aperture and shutter. Now we have film that can change ISO on a whim, and photographers like and want to change their ISO, and in situations where a menu selection is too slow.
No need for a new EC feature. The existing one applies exactly as it applies to Av and Tv, the legacy auto exposure modes. M with auto ISO is an auto exposure mode. EC is necessary for auto exposure modes.
With fully manual M, the meter just told you if you were over/under exposed and you adjusted to '0'. With auto ISO in M the camera tries to keep exposure at '0' by adjusting ISO. EC just skews what the meter is trying to zero to. Simple and logical and no different than what is going in with Av and Tv. The diff is two manual params versus only one.
No need for a new mode on the dial as such a new mode, aperture+shutter priority, implies auto ISO.
That fact that Canon does not allow EC in auto ISO M mode is just legacy, manual means "manual" thinking.
M with auto ISO should enjoy all the rights and privileges of the other auto exposure modes. Even Av is changed with auto ISO. Some complain the camera is to quick to bump ISO versus dropping shutter.
Breitling65 wrote:
Yes, some topics like below should be banned already
- 100-400 or 70-200 with tc?
- 5d3, so what is good there for extra $1k?
- jpgs or raw?
- where is 3D/cheap FF body?
- D800 .....
- 85mm what is better in F1.2L in compare to Sigma for double cost?
Also, ugly baby and cat/dog pics to demonstrate how sharp some new flanged lens is...
NormanPCN wrote:
"Manual" mode is called manual due to legacy. Nothing was auto selected. User selected aperture and shutter. Now we have film that can change ISO on a whim, and photographers like and want to change their ISO, and in situations where a menu selection is too slow.
No need for a new EC feature. The existing one applies exactly as it applies to Av and Tv, the legacy auto exposure modes. M with auto ISO is an auto exposure mode. EC is necessary for auto exposure modes.
With fully manual M, the meter just told you if you were over/under exposed and you adjusted to '0'. With auto ISO in M the camera tries to keep exposure at '0' by adjusting ISO. EC just skews what the meter is trying to zero to. Simple and logical and no different than what is going in with Av and Tv. The diff is two manual params versus only one.
No need for a new mode on the dial as such a new mode, aperture+shutter priority, implies auto ISO.
That fact that Canon does not allow EC in auto ISO M mode is just legacy, manual means "manual" thinking.
M with auto ISO should enjoy all the rights and privileges of the other auto exposure modes. Even Av is changed with auto ISO. Some complain the camera is to quick to bump ISO versus dropping shutter.
My point was there is no physical control on the camera that one can use to enter exposure compensation in Manual exposure mode. In auto modes, the Quick Control Dial is used to apply EC, but in Manual it is use to adjust the aperture while the Main Dial is used for the shutter speed--unless you've swapped them.
Hence Canon would need to add a dedicated input method just for this mode, something like FEC but for ISO.
Alternatively, they could 'overload' the function of the Main Dial so that you could access both aperture and shutter speeds there via a mode toggle (hold a rear button or--ha!--use the ISO button ). This is easier than designing a new dedicated control but it would inject operational inconsistency when changing shooting modes. Either way would change up how the camera works in a fundamental way.
Maybe the added complexity is worth it, but if I were a product planner I'd want to make certain that there was wide interest in this scenario (and that the existing solution proved insufficient) before committing to changing the core ergonomics.
garyvot wrote:
My point was there is no physical control on the camera that one can use to enter exposure compensation in Manual exposure mode. In auto modes, the Quick Control Dial is used to apply EC, but in Manual it is use to adjust the aperture while the Main Dial is used for the shutter speed--unless you've swapped them.
Hence Canon would need to add a dedicated input method just for this mode, something like FEC but for ISO.
If they added, as suggested above, an Iv position to the mode dial, then the current ISO button would allow +/- EC adjustment - i.e above/below the ISO that would be based on the current meter "suggestion". Then the M would be, as the purists want it to be, fully manual. I'd give up a C1, C2 or C3 for that slot on the dial
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