p.2 #1 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
Hello,
My two pence worth, since I'm coming from a similar situation as yourself.
I started off with a 450D body with a couple of old lens's I used with a 35mm film EOS300 camera.Went for this options as it was low cost and seemed a reasonable way to get back in to it.
Generally, I shoot landscapes, portraits, street etc to give you an idea of my uses.
Now - I still have the 450D, which I think is a great little body for the cost, but have recently started to put the money into the lens's. (16-35L and 24-70L)
Essentially, I've seen my image quality go through the roof in comparison to my old lenses, which was my aim really.
Faster lenses that can deliver excellent quality, will stand the test of time and will generally retain their value.
In terms of image quality, the side by side comparison is stunning - Colour, clarity and detail captured still make me smile.
Something I did which might be worth your while is renting a good lens, whatever your target lens is. See what it can do, does it improve things that much etc etc.
I'll upgrade the body at some stage when funds allow, but for now I'm happy with it. Ulitimate aim is to go for full frame, probably 5D mkII or maybe mkIII, depending on budget at the time.
The 450D covers 90% of shots I want (lacks a bit at low level with the 1600 max ISO which is quite noisy I find), whereas I was never 100% happy with the IQ, depth of field, sharpness etc.
So, for me - I chose the lens investment route, which for me, has worked out how I wanted it to and if you hunt around, you can pick up the odd bargain when they come up (the 24-70L came from here infact, stellar condition and a good price vs UK used market)
p.2 #3 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
thomashammer78 wrote:
would there be a BIG difference between a 7D and the T3i besides the price?
the only big difference I see is shutter speed 1/4000 vs 1/8000
continous drive at 3.7 and 8
Focus point 9 and 19
all which I guess is related to the DUAL Digic 4 processor in the 7D.
I take it BOTH camera's would be a BIG upgrade from my entry level 1000D camera?
The speed, accuracy and flexibility of 7D AF is a huge difference over a Rebel. I especially love being able to assign spot AF to the DOF button for use on the fly. 7D Weather sealing and overall toughness is another biggie.
I also really appreciate the 100% VF.
There's has been recent deals for a new 7D from reputable dealers for ~$1100. I'm sure this price will come down once the announcement for the mark 2 version is made (hopefully it'll be sometime this year).
p.2 #5 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
On the subject of longer lenses that let in more light: you might consider
Canon 100mm f2.0 $350 ? used
Canon 135mm f2L $900 ? used
Canon 200mm f2.8L $650 ? used
These lenses are super sharp, two lenses offer f2, and the 100mm is a screaming bargain if the focal length is correct for your subjects. Lenses hold their value much better than camera bodies.
For wildlife, you need a minimum of 300mm, and I would only consider such a long lens if it has IS.
p.2 #6 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
you cannot go longer, plus faster, without spending a lot of money. your best bet if both are requirement is the 300 f4 L, used at under 1K. you can go a little shorter (200 2.8) and maybe buy a tc to push you to 280 f4. about same price all said and done.
with a budget of 1500, you can buy a used canon 100-400L. its very versatile for both sports in good light, and for wildlife. it would be heavy on the xs, and xs has pretty pathetic focusing. you can also go for a used 60D at 700 or so, and if you want extra length, look at a used sigma 120-400 OS or 150-500 OS. If you can stretch the money a little, an live without zoom and IS, you can pick up the awesome 400 5.6 L for just under 1k Used.
p.2 #7 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
I think you need to upgrade your glass first. Your existing lenses may not work well with 7D. 7D has a small pixel pitch and it needs good glass to show off it's abilities... So upgrade the glass, then go for an upgraded body when funds allow.
p.2 #10 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
7d is a great camera. I have 5diii,5dii,30d,7d and when it comes to sports/wildlife - 7d is great. And even with 5diii improvements, aside from early or late, I usually use 7d.
On the 7d, iso 1600 I find acceptable, ISO 3200 is okay if the animal is posing well enough to overcome the quality loss.
However, I think you will get more bang for the buck with a better lens, and the lens will hold its value much longer. I predict that next year, when the 7dii comes out the market will be flooded with used 7d's. Whereas a good L will still be the same price or more.
I suggest, because you stated wildlife and sports - 300 f4 with a 1.4x or a 100-400. Both are under $2000 and will really improve your kit. Whereas getting a 7d will just expose the defficiencies in your existing lens. The key difference between them, is 100-400 is more versatile but longer (when the animal is close, you don't miss him). Whereas the 300 F4 will permit ISO 800, where the 100-400 would require 1600ISO for the same exposure. Bot have very good image quality with the edge to 300 F4. Alternatively buy a 70-200 f2.8 I (not II to save money) and add a 1.4x.
p.2 #11 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
Don Clary wrote:
On the subject of longer lenses that let in more light: you might consider
Canon 100mm f2.0 $350 ? used
Canon 135mm f2L $900 ? used
Canon 200mm f2.8L $650 ? used
These lenses are super sharp, two lenses offer f2, and the 100mm is a screaming bargain if the focal length is correct for your subjects. Lenses hold their value much better than camera bodies.
For wildlife, you need a minimum of 300mm, and I would only consider such a long lens if it has IS.
I like Don's ideas. I think that you'll be much happier with faster glass. If you are set on upgrading your body, you might also consider a 50D instead of a 60D for less money and similar IQ plus a better fps rate. I never really got the 60D, seems like they took away a lot to give us an articulated screen.
Something else to consider is renting some lenses before you buy. Lensrentals.com is pretty good and has everything mentioned so far I think.
p.2 #12 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
Take a hard look at the suggestions to get a used 70-200/2.8 non-IS.
The f/4.5 or 5.6 lenses being tossed around are too slow for sports unless you are shooting outdoor daytime games, and even then, you don't get the isolation you want.
The various 70-200/2.8 lenses are the go-to lenses for sports. Yes, for some sports you want longer lenses but with the budget you are working with, they really aren't an option. Adjust for the focal length by waiting for the action to come to you.
You should look for a newer body as well. With a used 70-200/2.8 non-IS, you should be able to pair it with a used body that improves significantly over your XS and stay within your budget. A used 50D would work well. A 60D has a better sensor (high-ISO), but you lose out on several things vs. the 50D. Depends a bit on how much you are shooting indoors or nighttime.
Either way, I'd start with the lens and then upgrade the body next.
p.2 #15 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
thomashammer78 wrote:
OK so ive had my starter kit for about 2 years now
Canon EOS Rebel XS Digital SLR
EFS 55-250mm Telelens
EFS 18-55mm lens
I am mostly taking sports action shot or being out in the wild snapping wildlife and such
What would I benefit from upgrading first, Camera body or lenses
I am looking for Zoom Lenses and im not sure if I should go with Sigma or Canon but then again not sure if I should get another body first and "how big should my upgrade be
Sigma 150-500mm f/5-6.3 AF APO DG OS
Sigma 50-500mm f4-6.3 EX APO RF HSM
Canon EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6L IS USM (twice as expensive as the SIGMA is it worth it its only 300 too?)
I have no experience with Sigma nor other zoom lenses, is there a better choice that would fit the Rebel or should I just continue to save up and buy Canon?
BODY, should I change body before I go for lenses?
what body should I get, would there be any major benefits to get like a T3 or should I take the bigger jump up to a EOS 60d or a 7D (about my price range, same with lenses $1500)
p.2 #16 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
bushwacker wrote:
Buy these:
7D, Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 and buy Canon 50mm f/1.4 that's all you need.
200mm isn't even close to enough reach for outdoor sports and wildlife, though the 70-200 is a fantastic lens.
Here's my opinion:
If you are really considering the t3i, pass on it and just get the cheaper t2i. The only thing you get with the t3i is a swivel screen and a remote flash capablitity, both of which are useless for action shooting. Otherwise, the t2i is every bit as good considering image quality and ISO performance because they are the exact same sensor and processor, same FPS shooting, etc. It's pretty much the exact same camera.
If I were you, I'd opt for a new body before a new lens. Going to the 60D would be a significant improvement in all aspects of the quality of your image plus you get much higher MP which is great for the ability to crop.
If you are moreso leaning towards a lens rather than a body, the 70-300L is a superb lens and worth every penny. I would highly suggest you do NOT buy a fixed focal length lens for baseball. The ability to frame a play at first up close from the sidelines and then zoom in for a proper framing of a shot at 2nd, 3rd or the outfield are extremely valuable and the 70-300L is excellent at all focal lengths. It's my favorite lens.
My 1st vote, get a new body. t2i or 60D. A 7D has excellent AF and FPS but the image quality is equal to the t2i and 60D and not really in your budget or worth the money because of your budget.
p.2 #18 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
Yeah That picture you (OP) posted would look MUCH better with a 70-200mm f2.8 or a 300mm f4 or of course f2.8. Worlds better actually. IMHO dont mess about and get a Canon 70-200 f2.8L lens whether its the non IS, the IS 1 or the IS 2. doesnt matter. They are all awesome lenses.
p.2 #19 · Best upgrade - best benifit - Body or Lens?
Having started a few years back in a similar position (20D) I had to see-saw back and forth to bootstrap my way to better gear. One advantage of this approach is that you improve as your gear improves. My approach was to buy as good of used gear (here on B&S) as I could and go shoot. I focused on getting earlier versions of L lenses. My very first L's were a package deal of a 135 f/2.0 and a 200 f/2.8 at an incredible price ($1100 for the pair I think). It was mind boggling step up even on the old 20D and I still have and use them.
My next big jump was to buy a used pro body. That was a 1DIIn. It set me back $1500 but I shot the lights out of it for 4-5 years until letting go of it recently for a used 1DIII. I see nice 1DIIns going for $800. I can't imagine a better bang for the buck anywhere. You get superb AF, excellent thru put: 10 fps, really nice IQ, and ISO that is generally usable up to say ISO 1600. I only replaced mine because I was forced into ever more demanding and lower light action shooting.
Used L glass retains value but I think you can find a 70-200 f/2.8 (non-IS) for about $700 and I know for sure where you can get a 300 f/4.0 (non-IS) for about $650. Canon wants to sell you new and we all like the "new car smell" but carefully working the used market gives you much more value. Just cause there is now a 1DXXX out doesn't mean the older cams have stopped working, H*ll even an original 1D takes nice shots.
Buy glass. It never goes bad and upgrade your camera with used ones as they slide down the supply train.
Robert
BTW Saw your pix over in Sports a bit back. Nice shot (it still needs a tighter crop) though as many noted there, the limitation wasn't really equipment but timing and placement. Those can't be bought, only learned by continuing to shoot and refine your craft. Better gear helps you have the confidence to tackle it, but you still have to squeeze the button.
