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Archive 2012 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
  
 
mawz
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p.4 #1 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


lexdiamonnyc wrote:
no.....Nikon execs. have repeatedly said that the D800 is NOT the D700 replacement............and I'm holding on to that for now, the D800 is great but I know alot of us D700 shooters want a D800ish type camera with a D3s/D4 sensor.....not 36mp.........

Same bunch said that the D7000 is not the D90 replacement, yet it was, they just changed the product lineup a little so it was upmarket of the D90.

I don't expect a direct successor to the D700.



Apr 20, 2012 at 03:53 PM
wfrank
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p.4 #2 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


lexdiamonnyc wrote:
...........and I'm holding on to that for now, the D800 is great but I know alot of us D700 shooters want a D800ish type camera with a D3s/D4 sensor.....not 36mp.........

Why would the 36MP be a drawback? DR and more importantly shadow lifting seem much better in the D800 than in 5D3 (and 5D2 for that matter). I (as a Canon shooter) could argue that 20-25 MP is enough for all earthly purposes, but given that the D800 specs excels in any relevant sensor tech area I could easily live with 36MP if it was a Canon.

The ONLY drawback is really diskspace while the potential upsides are plenty.

But of course as we are in the alt-forum, the Nikon flange distance prohibits the use of CY's and a lot of other things in the alt lens universe. But then again, a Nikon D700 user should be used/suffice to that already.

Maybe it's time for Canon to ask Sony to produce a 25MP FF sensor. That would do the trick and solve almost anything apart from pride in their sensor department. And while doing that, put a tilty screen and reintroduce a company supported interchangable matte. Canon would easily find at least 100 customers here at FM alt :-)
Apr 20, 2012 at 04:30 PM
artd
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p.4 #3 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


wfrank wrote:
Why would the 36MP be a drawback? DR and more importantly shadow lifting seem much better in the D800 than in 5D3 (and 5D2 for that matter). I (as a Canon shooter) could argue that 20-25 MP is enough for all earthly purposes, but given that the D800 specs excels in any relevant sensor tech area I could easily live with 36MP if it was a Canon.

The ONLY drawback is really diskspace while the potential upsides are plenty.

But of course as we are in the alt-forum, the Nikon flange distance prohibits the use of CY's and a lot...Show more →
Yeah, I do agree I don't see a lot of drawbacks to the D800 sensor. Storage space is comparatively cheap. If you're buying a $3k camera I don't think buying an extra hard drive would be a huge burden. Of course more mp does impact fps a bit. But beyond that, hard to see a real downside.

Though a 25mp sensor is not going to cut it for Canon. It'd essentially provide the same practical results as 22mp. They need a much more significant increase to make a noticable difference. Somewhere around 40mp sounds about right.
Apr 20, 2012 at 04:41 PM
lexdiamonnyc
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p.4 #4 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


artd wrote:
Yeah, I do agree I don't see a lot of drawbacks to the D800 sensor. Storage space is comparatively cheap. If you're buying a $3k camera I don't think buying an extra hard drive would be a huge burden. Of course more mp does impact fps a bit. But beyond that, hard to see a real downside.

Though a 25mp sensor is not going to cut it for Canon. It'd essentially provide the same practical results as 22mp. They need a much more significant increase to make a noticable difference. Somewhere around 40mp sounds about right.


you guys are absolutely right..........I should have said, high iso is more important to me that high mp's.......I do alot of night time shooting


Apr 20, 2012 at 05:10 PM
crazeazn
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p.4 #5 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


i need high iso more than anything else. some people need low iso + resolution. everybody's needs are all different.
Apr 20, 2012 at 05:17 PM
AaronNegro
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p.4 #6 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


wayne seltzer wrote:
Sure number of AF points is greater, I was more referring to the overall AF system and how the AF chip is sending information to the exposure metering chip etc. , I forget their name for that. Ok the AF points are more sensitive, they probably had that from the 1d series right? How close is this to the 1d4 AF system? So they finally migrated down some of their 1d AF technology, big whoop.They increased the price from 5d2 to do it too.
Anyway, how much exclusive new AF technology is in the 5d3 vs. other previous Canon cameras...Show more →

I will have to disagree with you in one or two things (while agreeing in some others).

The AF on this camera is really a step forward from what you can achieve with a 7D and it is even a tad better than the AF you got in the 1DIV. From what I can see in low light is a good improvement.

I agree raw IQ has not changed in low ISO but the fact that you can now nail the target with a proper AF makes this camera a different tool in a much higher league than the otherwise very good 5DII. (For anything that moves)

I understand you are a studio/landscape photographer and you are waiting for an upgrade in resolution and low ISO IQ, but you cannot rebate the strong points of this upgrade for 5D/5DII shooters and crop users looking for an all in one solution.

However, and to make you happy, I think Canon will soon come with something that will make your teeth grow, specially about resolution.

The 5DIII is a great option for me, I'm using an old and lovely 5D, it even made me forget my plan to get a 2nd hand 1DsII to jump straight for a brand new camera this year.

P.S; I worked for Apple Tech Support in Cork's European headquarters for a length of time but I definitely never worked for Canon. The former does not stop me from being an android user



Apr 20, 2012 at 05:36 PM
artd
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p.4 #7 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


lexdiamonnyc wrote:
you guys are absolutely right..........I should have said, high iso is more important to me that high mp's.......I do alot of night time shooting
Right...but the thing is, it's kind of a myth that with high megapixel sensors you are stuck with poor high ISO performance.

While the higher megapixel sensor is probably going to be noisier than a sensor with fewer megapixels when each output at their native size, if you downsample the higher megapixel image to the size of the smaller megapixel sensor, the high mp image comes closer to the low mp image in terms of noise.

I suggest trying it with the D800 vs 5DIII high ISO test shots to judge for yourself....in my opinion when you downsize the D800 to the 5DIII sizes, the results are very close.

Some people say "Well what's the point of having the higher mp sensor then?" And the answer is that you have have more pixels when you are at low ISOs, and the option to have cleaner images when you are at high ISOs which you would've gotten if you were using a lower mp camera in the first place. The higher mp camera can always downsize to the lower mp size and have comprable quality. But the reverse (upsizing lower mp to higher mp) is not true.
Apr 20, 2012 at 05:47 PM
freaklikeme
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p.4 #8 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


AaronNegro wrote:
However, and to make you happy, I think Canon will soon come with something that will make your teeth grow, specially about resolution.


I've never heard the expression, but I agree with the sentiment. Canon's not done yet.
Apr 21, 2012 at 09:26 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #9 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


Fred Miranda performed a really nice comparison between the D800 and 5D MIII which seemed to really pinpoint the pro's and cons's of both bodies. What really got my attention was the amazing way the Sony sensor in the D800 handles noise when recovering shadow detail. The Canon sensor is simply pathetic by comparison. Canon has a looong way to go beyond just MP's to catch up in sensor tech.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index_controlled-tests.html
Apr 21, 2012 at 09:58 AM
StillFingerz
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p.4 #10 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


freaklikeme wrote:
I've never heard the expression, but I agree with the sentiment. Canon's not done yet.

As for DXO...it's spanking abilities...we have cars with mpg rating, in the real non-lab world they're never perfect...you have to drive for awhile to really understand what you can actually get...

Agreed, Canon kind of took a break from us Still's/Video folks and put their big R&D bucks/people/efforts into their 'Cine' side of the business "Hollywood", while giving us some well flushed out pro level cameras 5D3 & 1DX.

Yes there are a few missing/glaring omissions on the 5D3 (no focusing screens, no real bump in MP or low ISO DR, faster FPS; perhaps) but it seems to be rock solid for the moment...doesn't seem horrible to me. I'd guess the 1DX will have fewer negative points...it should at near double the price.

With all the competition out there pushing the sensor limits, seeming to break them again, again...as said before, I doubt Canon won't 'catch up' (to funny considering how ground breaking the 5Dc and 5D2 were in their day) relatively soon in the MP/DR race.

Nothing is ever perfect, technology advances as our tiny brains/imaginations move/push the limits of the known, into newly known and beyond. I hope Canon re-focuses it's efforts a bit more on non-cine efforts tho...can't imagine them not exploring mirror-less, higher MP/DR, etc, they're just letting the other guys manage the arrows that often spank/sting with new technology.

I'm saving for a 5D3 or what ever comes next, staying with APS-C because I've not even discovered the limits of my lowly 10mp 40D. A few friends, we're all amateur shooters, have 5Ds and D700s, I kinda have pixel envy, can def see a difference in IQ, but I'm not in 'need' of it yet...soon tho, as I start printing bigger

Now that I have some L glass I'm spoiled...I'm guessing going FF will do the same!

Not being a pro I don't get caught up in the MP smackdown, the oh who's better who's the new loser at-the-moment craziness....I'm a designer/programmer by trade so my income is not based on my images. But as I read thru FM posts, see your amazing work, begin to understand your need for the 'perfect image' (like I have for designing software; that no matter how hard I want it to be is never 'perfect') I do get why all the debate, the wanting MORE, is on these pages.

Everyone, even the fan/flame bois, are interesting, enlightening reads. I hope one day I have as discerning eyes as you all do...passionate is a wonderful way to be. Keep debating, posting images, you inspire...thanks FMers you rock!

And Fred, thanks for this site, your latest review, your images are amazing, as is your integrity. Both the 5D3 and D800 look like amazing bits of tech. It's clear 'for-the-moment' that the shadow(s) do indeed know and that the D800 has brought them clearly into the light; into full view..

Jerry

Edited on Apr 21, 2012 at 10:56 AM · View previous versions
Apr 21, 2012 at 10:33 AM
pdmphoto
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p.4 #11 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


freaklikeme wrote:
I've never heard the expression, but I agree with the sentiment. Canon's not done yet.

Even if that is true, it won't be in a prosumer (affordable) body, like the D800. Canon only come out with a new 5D model every few years, so that opportunity has just passed.
Apr 21, 2012 at 10:48 AM
StillFingerz
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p.4 #12 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


pdmphoto wrote:
Even if that is true, it won't be in a prosumer (affordable) body, like the D800. Canon only come out with a new 5D model every few years, so that opportunity has just passed.

Affordable, you jest...when your're talking $3000 for just a body, is $500 more, really that big a deal...NO...it's a bit more uncomfortable, a whining point, but not the end of the world...so much drama!

As far as opportunity passing; happens all the time in life. You acknowledge your loss, potential loss, check your bottom-line; profit margin, take a momentary gamble, re-group; if needed (if you aren't already moving forward in private), this is big business secrets n all, and do your best next go round.
Apr 21, 2012 at 11:09 AM
freaklikeme
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p.4 #13 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


pdmphoto wrote:
Even if that is true, it won't be in a prosumer (affordable) body, like the D800. Canon only come out with a new 5D model every few years, so that opportunity has just passed.

Oh, agreed. It'll be interesting to see how much that matters in the long run.
Apr 21, 2012 at 11:29 AM
AhamB
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p.4 #14 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Fred Miranda performed a really nice comparison between the D800 and 5D MIII which seemed to really pinpoint the pro's and cons's of both bodies. What really got my attention was the amazing way the Sony sensor in the D800 handles noise when recovering shadow detail. The Canon sensor is simply pathetic by comparison. Canon has a looong way to go beyond just MP's to catch up in sensor tech.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index_controlled-tests.html

Thanks for the link. That's an impressive demonstration of how good the Sony sensor is performing in the D800. Exciting to know that this level of performance is available now.
Apr 21, 2012 at 11:38 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #15 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


AhamB wrote:
Thanks for the link. That's an impressive demonstration of how good the Sony sensor is performing in the D800. Exciting to know that this level of performance is available now.

The crazy thing is that I just checked what the NEX-7 could do with shadow recovery - shown below. Frankly, I was not expecting much at all but damn if it might be even better with the shadows than the Canon 5D MIII! I believe this example is even more extreme than what FM showed in his example.

As shot and even underexposed at base ISO 100:
http://www.gibranstudio.com/drn7a.jpg

Extreme shadow recovery:
http://www.gibranstudio.com/drn7b.jpg

100% crop of the recovered area:
http://www.gibranstudio.com/drn7crop.jpg
Apr 21, 2012 at 11:58 AM
StillFingerz
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p.4 #16 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


There is no doubt that Sony has hit it out the park with their EXMOR sensors, the shadow detail of the NEX is quite amazing, thanks for posting, the D800 seems even better...lets hope Canon can get there.
Apr 21, 2012 at 12:08 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #17 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


StillFingerz wrote:
There is no doubt that Sony has hit it out the park with their EXMOR sensors, the shadow detail of the NEX is quite amazing, thanks for posting, the D800 seems even better...lets hope Canon can get there.

Yeah, the D800 sensor is really unreal. That the high density, smaller APS 24MP sensor performs as well as it does is quite an achievement imo. Competition is a great thing so I'm sure Canon will get there.
Apr 21, 2012 at 12:11 PM
StillFingerz
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p.4 #18 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Yeah, the D800 sensor is really unreal. That the high density, smaller APS 24MP sensor performs as well as it does is quite an achievement imo. Competition is a great thing so I'm sure Canon will get there.

I surf the LL website as well, marveling at the images medium format digital backs can produce...seems Sony is getting close with their 35mm tech, this is unreal indeed...and we thought 21mp crazy good...the 24mp of the a900 was kick ass...wow Sony...keep pushin it!

I wonder how my old FD glass would do on a NEX 7...hmmm



Apr 21, 2012 at 12:20 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #19 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


StillFingerz wrote:
I surf the LL website as well, marveling at the images medium format digital backs can produce...seems Sony is getting close with their 35mm tech, this is unreal indeed...and we thought 21mp crazy good...the 24mp of the a900 was kick ass...wow Sony...keep pushin it!

I wonder how my old FD glass would do on a NEX 7...hmmm


I sold my a900 and am awaiting the D800 as a replacement, using the NEX-7 in the meantime though I have to say the NEX-7 is much better than I expected.


Apr 21, 2012 at 12:28 PM
StillFingerz
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p.4 #20 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!


Tariq Gibran wrote:
I sold my a900 and am awaiting the D800 as a replacement, using the NEX-7 in the meantime though I have to say the NEX-7 is much better than I expected.

Cant wait to see what Sony's next FF will be like, given the D800 wow factor. Cant afford either, but can dream...the NEX bodies are in reach.
Apr 21, 2012 at 12:37 PM
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