TSY87 wrote:
that has way more to do with the focal length than the pixel count/density.
A longer focal length lens will test your techniques far more than more pixels. More pixels only make a difference if you are heavily cropping or viewing at 100%. Otherwise any normal sized print you are printing now will look essentially the same.
I appreciate that, but I was really alluding to the fact that some D7000 users have very high expectations and the glass to show the difference in response to Herb's earlier comment. I should have quoted it in my earlier response. Herb's comment was that despite the same pixel density, shooting a D800 wasn't the same as shooting a D7000 because many D7000 users have low expectations and don't shoot with good glass.
I have very high expectations and my D7000 spends most of its time on a 5000 dollar lens.....
having the same pixel density matters only when you are shooting at the same FOV. it's not true because the D7000 is a DX body and the D800 is a FX body. what matters is the obvious, number of pixels in each image dimension, i.e. linear resolution and the D800 is much higher. those who have never regularly used a D3X or something higher have no idea what they are getting into if they think they can use the same lenses and same technique to get equal results.
Herb...
gfinlayson wrote:
I appreciate that, but I was really alluding to the fact that some D7000 users have very high expectations and the glass to show the difference in response to Herb's earlier comment. I should have quoted it in my earlier response. Herb's comment was that despite the same pixel density, shooting a D800 wasn't the same as shooting a D7000 because many D7000 users have low expectations and don't shoot with good glass.
gfinlayson wrote:
I appreciate that, but I was really alluding to the fact that some D7000 users have very high expectations and the glass to show the difference in response to Herb's earlier comment. I should have quoted it in my earlier response. Herb's comment was that despite the same pixel density, shooting a D800 wasn't the same as shooting a D7000 because many D7000 users have low expectations and don't shoot with good glass.
HerbChong wrote:
having the same pixel density matters only when you are shooting at the same FOV. it's not true because the D7000 is a DX body and the D800 is a FX body. what matters is the obvious, number of pixels in each image dimension, i.e. linear resolution and the D800 is much higher. those who have never regularly used a D3X or something higher have no idea what they are getting into if they think they can use the same lenses and same technique to get equal results.
Herb...
Herb, by pixel density, I mean the number of pixels in any given area. Sensors with the same pixel density have, by definition, the same linear resolution. FOV doesn't come into it because we've eliminated it from the equation. In fact, if we want to split hairs, the D7000's linear resolution is actually very slightly higher than the D800's. Both are significantly higher than that of the D3x:
D3x:
Resolution: 6048 pixels x 4032
Sensor size: 35.9 mm x 24 mm
= 168 pixels per mm
D7K:
Resolution: 4928 pixels x 3264 pixels
Sensor size: 23.6 mm x 15.6mm
= 209 pixels per mm
D800
Resolution: 7360 pixels x 4912
Sensor size: 35.9 mm x 24 mm
= 205 pixels per mm
The DX crop on a D800 will have the same number of pixels (give or take a couple) as the D7000. So, for the same focal length lens, a given displacement of the lens will equal the same displacement of pixels on a D800 and a D7000. Stability vs sharpness is the same for both when viewing at 100%.
In a nutshell, the D3x is easier to shoot with than the D7000 and the D800. The D7000 and the D800 present the same challenges when looking for equal sharpness at 100%.
Again, you are making a mountain out of mole hill. Are you saying that all these Canon users that have had more resolution until now somehow have mastered better techniques and use better lenses if they are getting great results with their cameras?
Look, it's only if you are going to make larger prints from the D800 viewed at the same distance as the smaller prints made from the D700 that this is a real issue. Or, if you are going to crop more. In other words, if you are not changing anything but the camera, there is no change in technique or lenses required to get equal results....and you will probably get better results.
If if you are going to do something different in your photography to take advantage of the extra resolution, of course you have to understand how to best do that and make sure you are using the correct lenses and techniques. I mean "Duh!!". That would be like buying a macro lens to shoot insects and expecting to shoot it like a portrait lens shooting people.
i checked the 35G with D7000 today and nothing to worry about. It is sharp as knife even in corners of DX, wide open. Which equals about all where i need sharp stuff on FX.
As 35G is least sharp lens in my typical setup, there is really nothing to worry about.
no they don't. they have different number of pixels per frame height and that is the number that matters. the only way it could be as you describe is when you use the same FL lens on both bodies and you absolutely do not to get the same FOV. you use wider lenses on DX to capture any given framing. all this tells me is that all those D800 owners like the OP are going to learn the hard way. the way you guys are talking, 4x5 and medium format film shooters should be able to use the same technique as 35mm film shooters because the film is the same and that is ludicrous.
Herb...
gfinlayson wrote:
Herb, by pixel density, I mean the number of pixels in any given area. Sensors with the same pixel density have, by definition, the same linear resolution. FOV doesn't come into it because we've eliminated it from the equation. In fact, if we want to split hairs, the D7000's linear resolution is actually very slightly higher than the D800's. Both are significantly higher than that of the D3x:
Well, when I went from my D70 and my D2h, to the D2X, I had a bit of a learning curve and yes, camera shake did come into play.
I can only imagine that if your best shot practices are not up to snuff, you could find less than desirable results from the files you create.
Tripod, Mirror Lockup, Live View focusing, cable release, all will go a long way to making the best files you can from your D800. (from a landscape shooters perspective)
HerbChong wrote:
no they don't. they have different number of pixels per frame height and that is the number that matters. the only way it could be as you describe is when you use the same FL lens on both bodies and you absolutely do not to get the same FOV. you use wider lenses on DX to capture any given framing. all this tells me is that all those D800 owners like the OP are going to learn the hard way. the way you guys are talking, 4x5 and medium format film shooters should be able to use the same technique as 35mm film shooters because the film is the same and that is ludicrous.
As Roman wrote, pretty much use the same technique for achieving sharp images: Sturdy tripod, decent ballhead, mirror lock, shutter release cable, low wind, live view loupe, etc. A higher MP sensor will record more diffraction and any motion blur will be magnified. It will also amplify your lenses shortcomings. If you know your lens strengths and weakness and their best aperture values you should be good.
I love all the forecasting about the issues everyone is going to have, sounds like we all are out to shoot for the first time and have no idea about what we are doing and lets just leave the camera on A U T O,
I am looking forward to my 800E arriving to test my skill set and see if they are up to the call,, having a camera in-hand for over 50 years just might offer me enough between the ears to grab a couple decent shots out of a few hundred,,
is the shutter release on the left or right side on the new cameras
Just wait until the D800 arrives in your hands... then tell us that it was as easy to shoot as the D7000. Oh I wonder... if Herb might actually be right.
As I progressd from the D70 to the D200 to the D7000 I found my % of really sharp photos dropped off. With the D7000 being the most challenging. I used to think I was far steadier than the average shooter when I was using my D70. I often got keepers shooting at 1/8th handheld with my 70 mm non-VR lens. It was easy. The D7K was a jolt back to reality for me. With 9 months of practice under my belt with the D7000 and working on my technique, I am much happier now. I might be wrong but I think we will see many threads complaining about "my D800 doesn't focus correctly".
Jeez, there is so much nonsense going around this place and the internet about the D800.
It's just a camera and it produces super sharp images hand held. I used a Nikkor 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8 and was shooting the Nikon reps face with the D800E and D800 both side by side. I noticed a few things, all the worries about hand holding were nonsense: I was shooting in Aperture mode and had my shutter speed dip to 1/30th with both lenses and using a three shot burst, noticed I'd get a couple of sharp pictures each time.
I found it interesting that I could see fuzz in the hair of the Japanese rep that was not even noticeable in my 7D which I had with me. I also found it interesting that the D800 allows you to zoom into the reviewed image more than you should, so much so that jaggies show up. So I max it out and then back out a few clicks to confirm sharpness.
I took one wide shot of a wall of Nikkor lenses and was thrown back with the detail when zoomed in: I could see the knurled rubber ring detail on lenses on a shelf 10ft away.
Gregstx wrote:
As I progressd from the D70 to the D200 to the D7000 I found my % of really sharp photos dropped off. With the D7000 being the most challenging. I used to think I was far steadier than the average shooter when I was using my D70. I often got keepers shooting at 1/8th handheld with my 70 mm non-VR lens. It was easy. The D7K was a jolt back to reality for me. With 9 months of practice under my belt with the D7000 and working on my technique, I am much happier now. I might be wrong but I think we will see many threads complaining about "my D800 doesn't focus correctly"....Show more →
I agree that will happen. In fact, if anyone with a D800 that has lousy unsharp pictures, even after they send it back to Nikon for out of focus repairs, can sell me the D800. I'll take the out of focus POS off your hands for $500.00
TheObiJuan wrote:
Jeez, there is so much nonsense going around this place and the internet about the D800.
100% agree. My 10 year old Coolpix 5000 has far greater pixel density than the D800, as does the new Nikon V1. No problem taking sharp images with either one. All this pretentious "you have no idea what you're getting into" talk is mostly for self gratification and has nothing to do with real life experience. Once real photographers get their D800's and start shooting, the myths will go away.
Elan II wrote:
100% agree. My 10 year old Coolpix 5000 has far greater pixel density than the D800, as does the new Nikon V1. No problem taking sharp images with either one. All this pretentious "you have no idea what you're getting into" talk is mostly for self gratification and has nothing to do with real life experience. Once real photographers get their D800's and start shooting, the myths will go away.
But your 10 year old Coolpix has a tiny sensor by comparison and almost anything is going to be sharp with that sensor.
