RJKphoto wrote:
Not to be offensive, but your post seems a bit too desperate.
Desperate? Were you seriously talking about me? I'm not the least bit desperate. I've been through this before, just with video. Didn't second a single time then, though I wish I had. Not that I blew any weddings, but I think it's a great way to ease into being a primary.
canerino wrote:
Ron,
I can understand how frustrated you must be. You seem to have the determination and your goal set...just seems like you are looking for an opportunity.
I know there are many ways to skin a cat, but this is just how I did it...and it worked. In short, post some work, comment on other people's work, hang out, etc.
Good luck, Ron, you seem like a good dude!
Chuck
Thanks, Chuck! I guess I'm hoping to break in as you described. It would be great if I got to do a second here, a second there, the rest of the year. I've been on People forum so much, the wedding shooters probably don't know me very well, so this was my way of standing on top of the mountain and shouting out my introduction.
Thanks for your encouragement. Hopefully, I'll be posting things in here soon.
I'm going to echo jcolman's sentiment - I tried, and got little response, so just did it on my own. I never second shot for a single photographer before going out as a primary. I had lots of experience as a horse show photographer so was very adept at shooting manual in all kinds of lighting and having to be lightning quick timing-wise to get a shot. I didn't have (human) portrait experience so much. Although I look back on those first few weddings and think they're pretty awful, I did okay and those first clients still tell me they love their images when I run into them (believe it or not a couple have turned into a rolling series of referrals).
I was really cheap to start with but again like jcolman, am holding my own now and turning weddings away (I was going to book "only" 25 this year and just hit 31 :/ ) and branching out into more portraiture work. Like Ale I get a ton of requests to second - I need someone who knows my style and I don't have to spend a lot of time explaining things. A lot of my wedding days are 7-8 hours and things happen very fast. I need to be off shooting and have the 2nd off shooting - to that end, there's 2 seconds I use that totally know what to go get at what point in the day and I can trust them to do it. It doesn't mean I won't bring in more 2nds in the future - it's just one of those things, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it..." It's tough. Our local Facebook group is flooded with people wanting to 2nd. Good luck!
hardlyboring wrote:
You want business in your new area. Do the SEO thing I have been talking about. It works mind blowingly well.
Thanks, Doug, for your thoughtful response. As for the SEO thing, trust me, when you wrote your summary on it, I was taking notes.
I obviously will post my wedding work as I begin shooting them, and hopefully garner a little attention. Luckily, I have my niche in dance photography, which I simply have not utilized to my full capacity the last few years as most of my attention was focused on my corporate career. Now that my focus is solely on photography, that niche will help drive other types of business (i.e., senior portraits, weddings, etc), my way.
Again, thanks for your response, and I look forward to being a contributor to this wonderful community.
Eyeball wrote:
I happened to run into this today and thought of your thread here, Ron. They're trying to sell a book but you still might find this article interesting:
jcolman wrote:
I understand your frustration. I wanted to enter this business as a second shooter as well, to gain experience with weddings before tackling one on my own. I wasn't having any luck finding people to let me shoot with them, so I said "fu*k it" and started advertising on Craigslist. I shot my first wedding and charged the couple $500. Same with the second wedding. Then I upped my rates and shot the next few weddings for $900, then $1100 then $1500. I shot 20 weddings my first year in business with most of the clients coming from CL. This was back in 2009.
I don't advertise on CL anymore and my average bookings are around $2800 now, but it was a great way to get my feet wet and build my portfolio....Show more →
Thanks, Jim, for the encouragement. I hope to do well following in your footsteps! Y'know, Raleigh-Durham's not too far for me!
Even at my level (i make no secret about how new I am on this forum) I get several inquiries about being my 2nd shooter. I was in the same situation as you are right now. I pretty much did 3 super low budget weddings before I was able to score a 2nd shooting gig.
Thanks, Robin. You're doing great now! I've enjoyed seeing your work.
I have an idea. Sack off trying to second or third for others. There are so many reasons why they wouldn't let you second for them and only a couple of reasons why they would, hence why you're not having much luck.
Want my advice, find yourself another photographer who is in the same position as you, i.e skilled and competent and trying to get into weddings, start a mini wedding business together. This way you are spreading the risk as it is likley that between you even with limited experience you will capture enough decent pictures to satisfy your clients. Market yourselves with an average price point, as this will help attract clients. Too low and they will probably think poor quality so will avoid you, too high and many people will look for cheaper. Advertise yourselves as 'wedding photographers', not wedding newbies. Make sure you both plan well, do the research and customary pre-visits to the venue etc, use the Need Creation technique I have no doubt bored you all with to find out what the customer wants and needs, and I am confident that you will do a good job.
All this stuff about, you must be a second shooter for a while is overrated. Yes of course it will help you build valuable experience of wedding photography at minimal risk, but sometimes the best way to learn is by jumping in at the deep end. If you have confidence and are good with your camera (which clearly you are) you will do just fine.
RJKphoto wrote:
No Offense Chuck, but does the industry need more people "who are adept with a camera"? It seems that second shooting has just become a way for folks who are "adept" with a camera", yet have no business skills, or money to start a business, to become a "professional photographer". I know many many seconds do go on to own their own business, but I'd wager just as many do not.
no offense taken. you make a good point, but i think you and i are looking at it from two different angles.
i am not beholden to the amorphous wedding industry. it doesnt owe me anything nor do i owe it anything. i am totally fine if someone second shoots for me and then goes off on their own. their business sense (or lack of) is on them. second shooters dont owe me anything after they deliver images.
i look at the relationship that Pat Furey and I have. he gave me my start in the game (and i'll forever be grateful). i am now shooting in the same market as him (granted, our clients will be very different), however, we talk frequently and meet semi-frequently. hell, i even talk about him by name in my consults. i am happy for his successes and he is happy for mine. i'm guessing if pat had the chance to go back and hire or not hire me to second for him, he'd still choose to hire me (despite the fact that i am a primary in his market). i doubt pat had any worry or concern about the industry. bottom line is he could trust me to be 'adept with the camera'.
I think we were all in your shoes to a degree when we first started out. Hell, I still consider myself just starting out! Before I started looking for a photographer to second shoot for I ran ads on craigslist and model mayhem looking for ladies with wedding gowns, and if they had a husband or boyfriend that could join all the better. I ended up doing two such mock bridal sessions. This gave me some valuable images for my port which I was able to share with wedding photographers in addition to my other portrait work. Of course I was upfront about how the images were all setup with models - which may have actually spoke to my tenacity and desire to do this. I think it also gave photographers an easier time visualizing my style (and competence) in relation to weddings. Then, as Doug stated, I cast a very wide net - but still only targeting photographers who's style I liked. I either heard nothing back from some or a polite 'no' from others. Ultimately it landed me a second shooting gig with an excellent wedding photographer, and the rest is history. I think you need to pursue this somewhat aggressively and persistently. Second shooting was huge for me, it gave me a wonderful foundation to build upon. Good luck!
Why not establish your photography career first then leave the corporate world ? I would not ever give up a sure thing for a dream unless I had no one else to worry about than myself. But with commitments such as mortgages, spouse and the many bills that some with all of that, to leave a secure career without first establishing a second seems like putting the horse before the cart...
Post an ad on Craigslist titled "Looking for Wedding Photographer". Then in the ad say you are looking to be a second shooter. You will get a lot more wedding photogs reading the ad with this title than with "I wanna be a 2nd shooter". I got two 2nd shooter jobs and connected with a few other photogs this way.
2nd shooting is different from being a primary, though. You are there to fill/complement the primary, so you will need to sacrifice what might be a great portfolio shot for another shot because the primary already has the great shot. Also, you can't promote yourself/network as a 2nd; you are there for the primary.
2nd shooting is great experience and all, but if you want experience as a primary, you need to be a primary. Shooting for free/cheap like jcolman suggests is one way to get primary experience. Just be up front with your experience and have a good contract. And network like crazy with the other vendors for the weddings you do.
Sarah Dickerso wrote:
I'm going to echo jcolman's sentiment - I tried, and got little response, so just did it on my own.
Sarah, thanks for your encouragement! I'm totally with you on the seconds. When I did wedding video, I had a second shooter who worked really well with me and I eventually was able to train him to be a lead so I could send out two teams on weekends. He had to learn to do things in my style, and was very open to doing that. I never would have taken a chance on a new second as long he was available. So I'm with you.
ct8282 wrote:
I have an idea. Sack off trying to second or third for others. There are so many reasons why they wouldn't let you second for them and only a couple of reasons why they would, hence why you're not having much luck.
Find another 'second' wannabe and go for it
Thanks, Chris. I plan to do something exactly like that! I appreciate the encouragement.
Mitch W wrote:
I think we were all in your shoes to a degree when we first started out. I think you need to pursue this somewhat aggressively and persistently. Second shooting was huge for me, it gave me a wonderful foundation to build upon. Good luck!
Thanks, Mitch! I do plan to remain persistent. Ideally, I'd like to get some second gigs not just for the experience or to build my port, but also just to be able to watch how another photographer does things. That's invaluable, no matter what level expertise I have.
Ron... my first bit of advice to anyone looking to second shoot is to be known... what's that mean?, well precisely what you're doing.. no one is going to hire a second shooter that they don't know. So first and foremost, you need to get active in your photography community. You're here, speaking up.. so people will start to recognize your name.... now show us some work. You may not have weddings to show us.... but I'm sure you have people, or engagement like shots.
I'd also recommend getting active in your local community, one way to do this is through Fast Track (better together), whatever the name is now. I don't know if there is a FT group in your area, but I'd bet there probably is... I know there are always people looking for second shooters in my group... again, no one is going to bring you on if they don't know you, so get active by going to meetings, group shoots, etc.
marti.g3 wrote:
Why not establish your photography career first then leave the corporate world ? I would not ever give up a sure thing for a dream unless I had no one else to worry about than myself. But with commitments such as mortgages, spouse and the many bills that some with all of that, to leave a secure career without first establishing a second seems like putting the horse before the cart...
Y'know, the corporate gig isn't all that's it made out to be. I gave it 12 years. Now it's time to put all my energy into something I love doing. I have done this before, so it's not like I'm going blindly into this, plus I already have my dance foundation.
bagochips wrote:
2nd shooting is great experience and all, but if you want experience as a primary, you need to be a primary. Shooting for free/cheap like jcolman suggests is one way to get primary experience. Just be up front with your experience and have a good contract. And network like crazy with the other vendors for the weddings you do.
