p.2 #3 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
Kittyk wrote:
to save moneys, yes (though you are doing disservice to your customers
If the photog's not charging a lot it's ok to use crop cameras only. If the clients aren't paying a lot then they get what they pay for. Why should the photog be invested in gear the same as what another photog is who's charging twice as much.
p.2 #4 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
By some of the logic in this thread, D700/D3 owners should only charge half of what D3s owners charge... since it has a stop of noise advantage. And when the D4 and 1Dx are circulating, you should drop your prices if you don't have one.
p.2 #6 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
as people have said on here, if you wanna stay with DX just b/c of size and weight, it's not really practical...there are other reasons to go dx though...the d7000 has more dynamic range than the d700....dual card slots...you can shoot nearly as wide for cheaper (11-16mm tokina), video abilities (not a big thing)....the focus points reach further to the edges of the frame, 100% viewfinder (d700 is only like 96%)....and the fact that the d7000 is half the price (if not more, when you consider a low milage, mind condition d700....) i know a lot of event photogs that shoot 50d's b/c they put so many miles on their cameras, that they cant afford to replace 5d's multiple times a year...
this guys, Lee Morris, who started fstoppers.com has said that he's been shooting weddings d7000's for over a year now, and it doesn't look like his work is suffering from it... http://www.rlmorrisweddings.com/
p.2 #7 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
Nearly every photographer you look up to shot with crop cameras a few short years ago. It's funny how the performance line has moved. I still remember people on this board extolling how "noiseless" 20D high ISO images were.
I currently shoot with 5D's because I do see the IQ difference, and I want to get the most out of my L primes, but I could "begrudgingly" shoot with today's crop cameras, and most clients wouldn't know the difference.
p.2 #8 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
Mr Kris wrote:
By some of the logic in this thread, D700/D3 owners should only charge half of what D3s owners charge... since it has a stop of noise advantage. And when the D4 and 1Dx are circulating, you should drop your prices if you don't have one.
stop of light advantage but only if you use it at high ISOs. it have lot of disadvantages too.
for me, i will never use large and heavy "pro body" when it does not even have better spread AF points. was hoping D4 would be better in this area, but no. Everything is done only for center hunting sport togs.
I so wish it have AF/mettering points spread at least as D300 have
p.2 #9 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
Have used crop sensor Nikons for the past ten years, but in the last six months 'upgraded' to FF in the shape of the D700.
Many pro togs use crop sensors for one reason or another. I was very happy with mine, but I found myself increasingly in low light situations where I needed the low noise from a FF sensor. It was an easy decision for me as all my lenses apart from one were pro spec lenses from the days of film, ie made for FF.
Having spent the last six months with the D700 its clear to me that the D700 whips the D300 at all ISO's, increasingly so as the ISO increases.
The shallow DOF is nice, but can be a pain at times when I would like more DOF but the light conditions won't allow a smaller aperture.
All in all I'm glad I went to FF and its very unlikely I will go back to DX
p.2 #10 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
TRReichman wrote:
Depends on the person's situation. I'm suggesting today's DX camera is more capable that many of the FF cameras we were using a few years ago, so the idea that they are somehow ripping the client off by using them is suspect. If it is an economics of ROI thing some people might benefit from going crop instead of FF. On a practical level I could switch to DX tomorrow and it wouldn't affect me negatively at all. I just don't see it as the big deal it was a few years ago (when admittedly there was a marked difference).
Then again, sounds like I might need to add an additional day to the workshop to sort all this out...
This is the way I see it. The D7000, for example, has a slightly smaller viewfinder than the 5D and is .2 stops behind it in high-ISO noise. It also can't reduce DOF quite as much with a given lens due to the smaller sensor. Besides that, though, it seems to offer more advantages in every other category: http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_5D-vs-Nikon_D7000. Part of me likes the idea of buying a used 5D just for the DOF factor, but another part of me realizes that I'd get everything else and then some from a D7000 or K-5 or even a D5100 (same sensor in all three cameras, but the D5100 has a much smaller VF).
When compared to current gen FF cameras, the gap does grow, but...I don't know. I feel as if today's Nikon crop cameras (Canon's seem to be chasing resolution at the expense of noise) offer everything one could get from yesterday's FF cameras with the exception of DOF reduction, which is a physical issue rather than a technological one.
p.2 #11 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
you won't really know the difference until you have a chance to actually work with one and compare your images, then you can tell if it is worth it to you
p.2 #12 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
I agree with Maxwell on this
It is the photographer, the light, the lenses, the processing and then the body
On 18x12 Album spreads you'll see no difference stopped down and at normal iso's
You'll see a difference zoomed in on screen, but this screen view represents enormous sized prints.
Print size is what matters - and I work 18x12 album spread
I have both. There is advantage in shallow dof of FF at f1.2 - f2.8 by 1.6 dof difference and extra sharpness to the FF at those shallow dof's
And when zoomed in on a shot - eg half body and face -- above IS0 1250 without flash or without good light the FF wins. But you can make crop work at hi ISO zoomed out on the shot
FF to me is about the portrait primes wide open or near wide open and hi ISO
But to get these primes into position requires multiple bodies in fast paced setup
At the end of the day it is the shooter imo
I know some shooters that have two crop cameras with 17-55 IS, 70-200 F2.8 IS II, 50 F1.4, Toki 10-17, and a 5dc with 100L that provide incredible pj event coverage because they can quickly get the tools into position
Ie, the photographer skills matter more for them than spending more on heavier gear because they know how to use their gear- it's faster and better for them
As Maxwell said too much is made of gear. I'll add, the screen will fool you. It is the prints that matter
p.2 #13 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
Yeah, right now we're going to order some prints at high ISO to see what they look like in the physical medium, since everything I've read suggests prints are far more forgiving than screens.
p.2 #14 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
tobicus wrote:
Yeah, right now we're going to order some prints at high ISO to see what they look like in the physical medium, since everything I've read suggests prints are far more forgiving than screens.
Right, prints, and useability
I do album spreads 18 x 12
It is the concept of zoomed out
Smaller sized prints are zoomed out
Full body shots vs half body are zoomed out
As a lowly example go to image resources and read the review on my lowly canon Elph digicam - the 500 HS
8x10's useable at ISO 800
5x7's useable at ISO 1600
4x6's useable at ISO 3200
For a lowly digicam zoomed out in print size
For my 5dc and 40d I have no problem working 12x18 spreads ISO 3200 for the 5dc and up to ISO 1250 for the 40 d - zoomed in on shots
The D7000 is better than my 40 d and has those nice dual slots
My guess is you are good up to ISO 1600 for 18x12 spreads zoomed in on shots- half body and ISO 3200 zoomed out on shots - full body - up to 18x12 spreads
You can make it work if you keep this zoomed in and zoomed out concept in mind
I consider this during the no flash ceremony with my 70-200
If I can get ISO 1250 ss 1/60 f2.8 IS or pod, I'll go with the 40d and 320 fov for the close ups
If I need ISO 3200 ss 1/60 f2.8 IS or pod, I'll use the 5dc and drop back to 200 mm fov
I call this the concept of ISO crossover point for me
You may be at ISO 1600 at 18x12 for zoomed in half body
But zoomed out Full body at 18x12 you may get IS0 3200
It plays during the no flash ceremony
Otherwise - you can adjust with flash if you can accept
My stye is to shoot with my 5d c and portrait primes f1.4 - f2.8 more often though up to ISO 3200 without flash
But I use to shoot just crop cameras and was fine for 3 yrs until I discovered long prime shooting at hi ISO without flash with my 4 stop 100 L
Good luck
p.2 #15 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
Wow a lot of thought went into that post MAC!! I've done big 12x18 and 12x24 album spreads from high iso d300 and d7000 shots, they look pretty dang good to me... No NR applied either... And those are viewed up close... The noise is even less noticeable on a large canvas or print hanging on a wall...
p.2 #16 · Anyone shoot with only crop sensor cameras?
NathanHamler wrote:
Wow a lot of thought went into that post MAC!! I've done big 12x18 and 12x24 album spreads from high iso d300 and d7000 shots, they look pretty dang good to me... No NR applied either... And those are viewed up close... The noise is even less noticeable on a large canvas or print hanging on a wall...
Those are nice bodies and you have the experience to make it work. Good exposure and sprinkling the right light makes the difference. One of my three seconds (all 10+ year pros) used a d300 at a wedding of mine last year and I enjoyed working with the properly exposed and framed RAW files.
As I've said, it's about the photographer, the light, the lenses, the processing, and then the body. Even a 6 year old 5dc and 40d work for me. I'll not upgrade bodies until I work more at huge sizes. 1DX looks nice to work with F4 lenses in low light without flash so I could shoot a ceremony with a 300 F4 IS L, but at $7K for a body, I'll probably pass and wait til it gets below $5K. Shooting F4 lenses at high ISO will get togs interest because of the lens price differential and lens weight.
