fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Pro Digital Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1              end
  

Archive 2011 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???

  
 
CTYankee
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


MojoMotor is a great blogging tool for non-tech people, but nothing like EE. I honestly have not even looked at it. However from what EE devs say it really does content publishing right. There are aspects of MM they want in EE.

Whats nice about MM is if you outgrow it, you have its big brother to migrate to (and this is a supported feature).

As much as I like EE, I need to defend Wordpress. Free and well-engineered can go hand in hand. Wordpress has come a long way since it began, and the last few years have really seen it shed some of its issues (security, updates issues, blog-centric). It really packs a lot of bang for the buck when you compare what you can get for a $10 a month plan vs what it costs to do the same in EE.



Dec 28, 2011 at 12:41 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


CTYankee wrote:
Whats nice about MM is if you outgrow it, you have its big brother to migrate to (and this is a supported feature).


i.e. "well-engineered" ... gives me a bit more "peace of mind" than Wordpress seems to be doing so far.

+1 @ "Bang for the Buck" of Wordpress (powerfully attractive) ... but I'm getting to that place in life where a "Buck" today isn't always worth the "Peace" of tomorrow.

BTW ... "techno-curious" is a good descriptor ... which isn't the same as "techno-confident" ... although "psuedo-techno-potential" is probably somewhere down the road. It's been a really long time since I did any Basic programming and I have played with some HTML design about a decade ago, so it's not like I'm "techno-phobic" ... just trying to be realistic (and wise) and "come up to speed a bit" in the 21st century ... to figure out where I should land on this one.

Thanks again.



Dec 28, 2011 at 12:44 PM
cwebster
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


I have three web sites, one a hard-coded HTML site that requires me to code up new pages to add content. The second is a blog running on WordPress hosted by my service provider. The third is a full-custom ExpressionEngine-driven site that showcases my current photography.

The first is a total PITA to update, but I can do it myself. It was designed by a pro, in a barter deal. It would have cost a couple of hundred dollars to have created.

The second (Wordpress) is very nice for a casual blog about my adventures with a classic teardrop trailer. It isn't very "designy" or visually appealing, but it's dead easy to update and maintain, and was free. I used an existing theme and made a few changes to the CSS to get it more like I wanted. It's not sophisticated, but it's free and very easy.

The third (my professional portfolio site) was designed and coded by a pro. It runs out of the ExpressionEngine CMS, which cost $250 for my commercial use. It cost about a thousand dollars to have the EE templates designed and coded. But it takes me almost as little time to create a new gallery or add a photo as does updating my WP blog.

If you aren't a designer, I suggest you find some with good design sense and get a quotation to design the site you want. Then decide if you can afford it. You can't say "I can't afford a pro" until you know how much they will charge. And as you say "sometimes the buck isn't the most important thing."

You can see my HTML-coded site at www.charleslwebster.com, the Teardrop Trailer blog at www.charleslwebster.com/teardrop/, and my portfolio site at www.guitarphotography.com.

<Chas>



Dec 28, 2011 at 04:08 PM
jbregar
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #4 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


I'm chuckling a bit about the OP here writing off Wordpress's engineering four days after posting a list of web-related buzzwords and not being sure about the difference between "HTML" and "CMS".

Wordpress is fine, ExpressionEngine is fine. Wordpress is free, ExpressionEngine is not. Chances are good Wordpress is going to have a turnkey template and plugin setup that'll work for you. ExpressionEngine is often going to require custom programming to get functionality you want or the template features/design you want because the platform development activity is absolutely MINUSCULE compared to Wordpress. That's not a dig on EE, it's just a fact.

EE is probably a bit more industrial-strength, but there are HUGE sites being run on top of Wordpress right now as well. That said, EE is also going to cost you a lot more.

Wordpress has made huge strides in the past few years with regard to the "engineering." Updating Wordpress is really magical, is done entirely from the GUI and is (in most cases) one-click easy.

Seriously tho, you should really find someone who knows their butt from a hole in the ground to lead you through this stuff. Your posts are coming off completely confused and as a person who used to do this stuff for a living, I'd MUCH rather a client approach me completely in the dark than with all kinds of misconceptions and half-learned concepts rattling around in their brain. Not because I want to snow them over... it's just incredibly time consuming and frustrating to unravel the ball of yarn in their brain and fight the often ill-conceived ideas they've convinced themselves over.

Never mind that it's silly to need to know how the machine works to make an informed decision in choosing your web service provider(s). I can understand the curiosity, but this is a lot like heading into a web design forum and asking everyone "I'm about to get married and need to hire a wedding photographer, teach me all about f-stops, focal lengths, depth of field, circle of confusion, the difference between Nikon, Canon and Leica, silver prints vs. digital, color vs. black and white, how to print a photo in a dark room, how an inkjet printer works, etc." You don't ask to learn Objective-C before buying either Lightroom or Aperture, right?

If this is a business-related web site, do yourself a huge favor and shop for (and hire) a developer you're comfortable with, explain what you want to achieve (note I didn't say what technology you want to use) and ask for his recommendation on how to proceed with something that fits within your budget. You'd hire this person the same way you'd hire a plumber or electrician or designer for your business cards... interviews, portfolios/past work, etc. Find someone who you feel comfortable working with.

From the developer's perspective, I'm INCREDIBLY wary about a client who comes in with a fixed idea of what technology they want to use (Wordpress, EE, Joomla, PHP, Ruby, whatever) unless we've worked together before or we're trying to integrate into a specific technology stack that's present at the company already. A client with no real web knowledge who mandates that I use something specific (especially if it's not what I'd personally recommend) is going to get a polite "thanks, but I'm too busy to take your work at this time."



Dec 28, 2011 at 05:23 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #5 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Justin,

Well, you still misunderstand my perspective of striving to garner understanding (my failure to properly convey). cwebster's point at differieng levels of use and ease of use has merit to why the attempt to understand.

Shopping for a wedding photographer is very different from shopping for a camera ... one, you'll never touch the camera when you hire a wedding photographer, it is a service, not an end user product. I will be "touching" the end use website, so understanding a bit about the underlying aspect of things has merit.

I have no "fixed idea" about anything and likely won't be fixed at anything other than "flash" ... but of course, according to your point at "just hire someone" I suppose it wouldn't matter if they used flash as their only approach.

Suffice to say, that we are seeing my "education" as two very different levels of merit ... so jabbing at me for trying to learn any more is probably best left at "agree to disagree". You still seem to think I'm trying to learn the programming "to mandate" or "to do" rather than understand the concepts involved and how they relate to one another. I get that you proceed to run your business the way you see fit and don't like educated clients ... your business, your call.

As to Wordpress ... I haven't written anything off yet ... just expressed my concerns. Four days isn't enough to have figured out anything ... hence 1-3 months timeline allowance. Despite being somewhat ignorant on the subject matter, I have a small clue at how to proceed with analytical decision making. Ultimately, the decision will fall back on me ... and I accept that.

"Just hire someone" doesn't bode well for me as a prudent approach. Wanting to understand the pro's and con's of owning a "log home" vs. a "post & frame" ... doesn't mean I want to become a contractor ... it means I want to make an informed decision regarding which direction to go ... and THEN to hire a good contractor to help me achieve that direction. I get that some clients (Bridezilla ) may know just enough to be dangerous to the process ... but I've been around the block enough to know how to be a good client and follow the lead of a good hire ... assuming I know enough to differentiate between a good hire and a hack ... i.e. Bridezilla meets GWAC

No need to further ridicule my efforts to learn and garner conceptual understanding ... I get that you think I'm going about this totally different than you would suggest. The OP wasn't asking for ridicule @ the merits of trying to learn ... it was asking for direction to find legitimate information for helping with a decision, so that I won't feel like I'm progressing blindly into an abyss of ignorance ... to which I'm appreciative of the info that everyone has been providing, including your conviction on the matter.

At the end of the day, I may very well come around 'full circle' to where you're suggesting (or not). But at least after having taking a lap or two around town, I'll feel better about moving into whichever neighborhood I choose, knowing that I gave the town a good "once over" before committing to an investment rather relying solely on a real estate agent that I really don't even know. Maybe, I'll decide to hire a builder rather than buy, or vice versa ... but first I need to evaluate what the market has to offer in both arena's.

Thanks again to all.



Dec 28, 2011 at 07:11 PM
mdude85
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Geez. That is a very exhaustive list with a lot of redundancies.
All that stuff can be pared down into six basic categories.

Static Website (Flash based vs. HTML based)
Dynamic Website (i.e. CMS, Blogs, etc)
E-commerce
Corporate Identity (Brands, logos, fonts, colors)
Look & Feel
Social network integration



Dec 30, 2011 at 10:45 AM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #7 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


mdude ... thanks.

Okay, so I'm getting that a dynamic site is programming to pull from a DB to get a variety of "content blocks" as a framework to work from (similar to using reference cells, ranges, PT's in Excel on multiple worksheets without the need to replicate the data), whereas a static website is only what is programmed directly onto a give page. Is it that simple of a difference between the two ... and everything else (joomla, wordpress, drupal, EE) etc. is just a "brand" preference subsequent to dynamic sites.

Kinda like Diesel vs. Gas (platform preference) ... then Ford, GMC, Volvo, etc. (brand preference). Is that a reasonable conceptual understanding of Static vs. Dynamic and the subsequent bevy of CMS/Blog platforms ??

If this is reasonably correct, then the pro/con question would be why/when would a static have advantages over dymanic (i.e. diesel vs. gas)?

Then continuing, it would seem that HTML vs. Flash is simply preference of programming language for writing code for the static site. Most everyone has "bashed" flash as being a poor preference, citing SEO as the "con" against Flash. Thus, it would seem that a similar subset of choices regarding language exists for dynamic sites ... or are they all relatively "equal" (unlike the HTML vs. Flash comparison) in the way the site will perform, i.e. are there any pro's/cons's to consider ??

Edited on Dec 30, 2011 at 12:52 PM · View previous versions



Dec 30, 2011 at 12:23 PM
mdude85
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


I think you're making this too technical. A static website can still draw from a database. The basic distinction is not how the website is programmed but rather how and why the information is presented to the user.

In my opinion a novice needs to know whether he wants a static or dynamic website, and little more. If he wants to constantly update his website with new photos, then that is an example of a dynamic website for which a blog or CMS would be most suitable. If he just wants to display some of his best work, he could use a dynamic system like a blog engine, but a less complicated static system is fine too. He can use this knowledge to determine if he's being duped by a company that is trying to sell a very simple website for more money than it's worth. All this talk of Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal, etc does more harm than good because it is information overload (something that technical types fail to grasp when they put together information for novice users). The user only needs to be presented with one or two of the best options for a CMS. Once he gets his feet wet he is more than welcome to scour the web for alternatives.

Re SEO. Close to 100% of people who conduct web searches use one of 3 sites: Google, Yahoo and Bing. 85% of them use Google alone, which is exceedingly good at scouring the web. It will index your site properly even if it's Flash especially as most software for making Flash based websites already integrates SEO. In my opinion the biggest drawback of Flash is that it is not compatible with iPhones and iPads and it takes a lot of system resources to complete fairly minor tasks. But it also has many advantages.

Edited on Dec 30, 2011 at 01:17 PM · View previous versions



Dec 30, 2011 at 12:50 PM
CTYankee
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


These days its not even gas vs diesel. Its more like car vs horse and buggy. Then among cars you can choose what CMS you use.

When would a static have advantages? There are some very nitpick things that might be considered advantages, but a static site is absolutely not the way to go.



Dec 30, 2011 at 12:50 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #10 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


mdude85 wrote:
He can use this knowledge to determine if he's being duped by a company that is trying to sell a very simple website for more money than it's worth.

+1 @ Caveat Emptor


CTYankee wrote:
These days its not even gas vs diesel. Its more like car vs horse and buggy.

@ Horse & Buggy vs. Car ... is this loading speed or growth potential or ease of use or all ?


In both cases, an uneducated consumer is at the mercy of "snake oil" marketing.

Now, it sounds like we're at CMS vs. Blog vs. other ... more so than static vs. dynamic.



Dec 30, 2011 at 12:58 PM
RustyBug
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #11 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Here's a link that seems to be a very good "primer+" site ... in case anyone else is grappling with this as I have been. Does a nice job of presenting issues/consideration from a fairly objective perspective. Several links, plenty to read with info @ CMS, WP, static, dynamic, etc. ...

http://www.a3webtech.com/index.php/compare-cms-wiki-blog-forum.html


I "got it" ... now that absurd "laundry list" of terms makes sense.

Thanks to all for your help.



Dec 30, 2011 at 08:50 PM
PeterBuzzrain
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


The goal of your website is to attract visitors and generate you clients. Wordpress is the right thing for you because it helps you do that and it's flexible and expandable by using plugins.


Jan 13, 2012 at 05:05 PM
1              end




FM Forums | Pro Digital Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1              end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account