borderlight wrote:
Guys, Bill probably didn't read the new Upload and Sell accurately. He jumped to conclusions and misunderstood the benefits of a much improved system. I think all of us have experienced a similar reaction ourselves under different circumstances. He also has been a member for 6 years. I think he deserves a break, or at least no comment to his decision. Judging others shouldn't be a popularity contest.
+1
What good does it do to the reputation of the forum if some of its most longstanding members deign to belittle others and create a hostile environment? Do you think Fred wants people to feel like they're unwelcome here? You say you support FM. You may even take pride in paying the subscription fees. But are you really supporting the site by casting judgment upon others and fostering an antagonistic atmosphere, just so that you can make yourself feel superior? Wouldn't it be better to be amicable about it and at least make the effort to clarify the situation?
Why do you suppose FM does not have the reputation that, say, DPR has?
Are you looking for a good "Will" ambassador, perhaps?
To the OP, if you love the site, consider the subscription fee a thank you gift to Fred for building and maintaining such an awesome site. And then you can enjoy the privilege of uploading photos AND listing gear for sale on the Buy and Sell board. I note you haven't posted much in the seven years you've been a member, so perhaps your primary relationship to this site has been as a buyer of gear. FM is great for that, no doubt. But it is so much more. I'd encourage you to spend some time in the various forums and get to know some of the fine folks who hang out here. Post your photos and chat about gear you love to use or hope to own. I did that a couple of years ago and my relationship with the site changed dramatically. I count the subscription fee a very modest investment in something that gives me great pleasure. You might find the same thing if you give the site a chance...
And Fred, your recent change to the subscription system is great! Thanks for all your hard work on our behalf.
What good does it do to the reputation of the forum if some of its most longstanding members deign to belittle others and create a hostile environment? Do you think Fred wants people to feel like they're unwelcome here? You say you support FM. You may even take pride in paying the subscription fees. But are you really supporting the site by casting judgment upon others and fostering an antagonistic atmosphere, just so that you can make yourself feel superior? Wouldn't it be better to be amicable about it and at least make the effort to clarify the situation?
Why do you suppose FM does not have the reputation that, say, DPR has?...Show more →
I agree 100% wickerprints. It's a horrible when members create an antagonistic atmosphere, spout their superiority, believe that their own opinion is FACT, and state that those who disagree have an invalid opinion. That is a very bad thing. I agree with you 100% wickerprints! You are correct as always!
Bill Sutherland wrote:
Sorry Fred but I just don't buy it. I've been a member here for just on six years, during which time I have never used the Buy Sell Forum and never will. I have happily paid an annual fee to browse and post FM forums and believe that your site is good value for money in that respect. To ask me to pay another fee on top in order to post images is a double whammy in your parlance and frankly it's a rip-off in anyone's language. I'm out of here after my current membership expires. Goodbye.
Bill
Bill, there must be some kind of misunderstanding. The site is not charging any new fees.
First, let me be clear that FM is free to register and participate. It's open to all photographers. You may participate in the assignments or any other board including the buy and sell boards without becoming an Upload & Sell member.
In a nutshell, what the Upload & Sell membership provides, is the ability to upload images to our servers and start new threads on the buy and sell boards. We are continuously improving these services and the fee helps with the maintenance.
The Upload & Sell membership is a recent "Buy & Sell" + "Image Upload" subscription merge and it now combines all features to all subscribers. On top of that we now offer the option to get a membership without auto-renewing.
Bill, you are a very important FM member. You have won assignments three times and I have been following your success for years. If you have any questions regarding this, don't hesitate to send me a PM.
All the best,
Fred
fmcmanus3 wrote:
First off, let me say, I love Fred Miranda.com. The community in my opinion is the finest photography centered group that I've found. That being said, I'm disappointed in your decision to charge a fee to join the sell forum. Before I get flamed, let me say that it is absolutely your right to do so, However, I personally would have preferred to pay a transaction fee when an item was listed. As a regular buyer and seller, this would have been preferable to me. Of course I will continue to use this resource to purchase items, but I seriously don't see myself paying a fee to join.
Again, just my personal opinion. Keep up the good work....Show more →
I thought the same way at first. And held to that for about a year. Then I looked at how much e-bay was making off me, considered the caliber of the typical user here, and compared FM's B&S with all (and I really mean all) of the other trafficked and free B&S forums out there. I have to say that in the end I've come to like and appreciate the FM way as it is now better than any other by far! Really, by far! I wouldn't change a thing!
YMMV,
Also I gotta say: That's why I find Will's posts refreshing, entertaining, and informative! He's not rude or derisive, he tells it like it is. Always has! I hope he stays that way too! There's enough anal fussbudget pansy posters here already... Will's grit makes it bearable around here! I just wish he were in the Alt section more often!
Bill Sutherland wrote:
Sorry Fred but I just don't buy it… I have happily paid an annual fee to browse and post FM forums and believe that your site is good value for money in that respect. To ask me to pay another fee on top in order to post images is a double whammy in your parlance and frankly it's a rip-off in anyone's language.
Bill
Bill, (serious question) what annual fee have you been paying to "browse and post FM forums"? There's no fee to access any of the forums and only requires a FREE registration to reply to & start topics as well as participate in 'assignments' (congrats on your three wins ). So what "annual fee" have you been paying? BTW, 'image upload' has never been necessary to post images (although it does make it very convenient)…any free online hosting site can be used to link the images. Sure hope yo reply and explain please.
FM forum has seen continuous and excellent upgrades in speed and functionality since I joined. B&S board in particular runs well these days with a minimum of apparent intervention. I loath to think of the old days when it was moderated overly aggressively and in a discretionary manner.
It would not be reasonable to expect all of the fine services FM offers to come free.
Running the forum obviously cost money, and Fred needs to make a living like the rest of us.
OK, listen up everyone and I'll explain why and how this matter arose.
The reason that I spoke about a subscription fee arises from the fact that I have an annual subscription to the Hosting Gallery (which in fact I no longer use) and it is this fee I have confused as being a general membership fee. Today I received an email from FM advising that my Hosting subscription has expired and inviting me to re-subscribe. I will not be doing so and instead will probably spend much the same amount on the buy/sell forum in order to upload images in future. End of story.
Well, for what it's worth, I am glad to hear that you're now up to speed on the situation, and I hope that regardless of whether or not you choose to pay for additional services on FM, that you continue to participate in the forums.
Bill, (serious question) what annual fee have you been paying to "browse and post FM forums"? There's no fee to access any of the forums and only requires a FREE registration to reply to & start topics as well as participate in 'assignments' (congrats on your three wins 
). So what "annual fee" have you been paying? BTW, 'image upload' has never been necessary to post images (although it does make it very convenient)…any free online hosting site can be used to link the images. Sure hope yo reply and explain please.