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Archive 2025 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?

  
 
LostLensCap
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p.1 #1 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


My wife bought me Topaz for my Bday and so I've been digging through all my 10s of thousands of files and used it on some of them. These files were shot with a D7000 (aps-c 16mp), Sony a6000 (aps-c 24mp), Z50 (aps-c 24mp) D750 (FX 24 mp) Z5 (FX 24mp) and D850 (FX 46mp) with the A6000 being the noisiest and the D850 the cleanest. Topaz does wonders with noisy aps-c files bringing them up to a level that is hard to tell any difference when compared to the 46mp files from the D850. I'm only looking at my shots on a big HD monitor and not a 4K but, at some point someone is going to add a defeatable Topaz type processor into a 4:3 camera (if it hasn't already been done and I just don't know about it) This software will only get better and better. Is it already being used in cellphones?


May 15, 2025 at 02:45 PM
AcuteShadows
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p.1 #2 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


A 4K monitor has about 8 megapixels. Thus, there will be no difference between a 24 MP image and a 45 MP image, unless you are zooming in. Often, the images will be shown with automatic sharpening, which makes images look like they would be equally sharp, but introduces artefacts if the raw material is not sufficiently sharp to begin with. A really sharp print of an image will be much sharper than what any consumer monitor can deliver. Finally, we do not conciously realize every characteristic of an image - for example, we might be drawn to look first at the subject of an image if it is sharp in comparison to the background, even if we wouldn't describe the background as soft or blurry when seen in isolation.


May 15, 2025 at 03:14 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #3 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


Everyone has different needs, but a better original will produce a better output with a given processing.
Topaz Photo AI sometimes produces ugly artifacts with denoise and upscaling. Mostly I use it with older TIF files. DXO does a better job of denoising RAW files.
For resolution and overall IQ in 35mm size nothing beats the 61MP Sony a7rV sensor. I only wish Nikon had a similar sensor.

EBH



May 15, 2025 at 07:22 PM
suteetat
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p.1 #4 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


My take is if it can do that much wonder to aps-c file, imagine what it can do to FF file
I have not use Topaz in awhile as I found DXO/PS even better at noise reduction than Topaz (my Topaz is not the current one though, may be about 2 years old when I made the switch).



May 15, 2025 at 07:30 PM
RustyRus
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p.1 #5 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


If we have AI, do we need humans?

If we have AI, do we need cameras?

If we have AI, do we need encyclopedias?

If we have AI, do we need teachers?

If we have AI, do we need books?

If we have AI, do we need to leave the house?

Actually I missed the most important one- If we have AI, do we need to ask questions on forums?

Ask AI!! Duh

ChatGpt - With AI do we need Full Frame Cameras?

Short answer: AI is shrinking—but not erasing—the advantages of full-frame. Physics still matters, and for use-cases that lean on photon volume, depth-of-field control, or unquestioned image integrity, a larger sensor remains the most efficient tool. Below is a pragmatic framework for deciding when full-frame is still worthwhile in an AI-heavy 2025 workflow.

1. Photons, noise, and dynamic range
A full-frame sensor gathers ~2.3 × more light than APS-C and about 8–10 × more than a modern 1/1.3-inch smartphone sensor at the same f-number and shutter speed. More photons mean higher signal-to-noise ratio and wider raw dynamic range, giving you cleaner shadows and smoother highlights before any software touch-ups.
canonoutsideofauto.ca
DPReview

AI denoise (Lightroom’s Denoise, DxO PureRAW, Topaz) can make smaller sensors look two stops cleaner, but it hallucinates detail and can smear fine texture—fine for web, risky for critical print or forensic work.
Fstoppers
Fstoppers

2. Depth-of-field & optical rendering
Shallow DOF and “lens character” still come more naturally from a large imaging circle. Computational bokeh in smartphones must create a depth map, which struggles with hair edges, translucent objects, or busy backgrounds, and breaks in video pans.
PetaPixel

3. Motion & temporal artifacts
AI super-resolution or multi-frame night modes stack several exposures; moving subjects (sports, street, kids, wildlife) often ghost or blur. A single, clean high-ISO frame from a full-frame camera avoids that trade-off.
Reddit

4. Authenticity, compliance, and client trust
News outlets, courts, scientific journals, and many commercial clients require verifiable source files. Camera makers are adding C2PA or Content Credential metadata, sometimes in secure firmware, to prove capture integrity—features aimed at pro bodies, not phones.
PR Newswire
DPReview

5. AI is inside the camera, too
The latest stacked sensors (e.g., Sony IMX500) run neural nets on-chip, accelerating subject detection, tracking, noise reduction, and even real-time LUTs—all while retaining the raw sensor size advantage. In other words, full-frame cameras are becoming hybrid vision computers rather than sitting still while phones catch up.
Sony Corporation
TechRadar

6. Lens ecosystem & creative headroom
Full-frame systems offer extensive native glass—tilt/shift, ultra-fast primes, true macro, cinema PL adapters—that no computational model perfectly replicates. If your creative direction changes, you have optical headroom instead of re-buying hardware.

7. Where AI + smaller sensors are good enough
Scenario AI-enhanced smartphone/APS-C often suffices
Casual social media, 4K video for web Viewers rarely zoom to pixel level; AI up-rez works fine
Stock-like product composites Can shoot anchor objects on MFT/APS-C and synthesize environment
Travel weight/size constraints Flagship phones under 250 g; APS-C bodies ~450 g vs 700-900 g FF

8. Decision rubric for 2025 buyers
Output size & audience – Large fine-art prints, billboard crops, or agency retouch pipelines still favor full-frame.

Lighting control – If you can’t add light (events, documentary), extra sensor area pays off.

Subject motion – Fast action benefits from single-frame high ISO rather than multi-frame AI stacking.

Budget & carry weight – Bodies/lenses cost and weigh 1.3-2× more; only pay that tax if the above factors matter.

Client or regulatory demands – When authenticity or metadata chain of custody is non-negotiable, choose hardware built for that.

Bottom line
AI denoise, upscaling, and synthetic bokeh have made APS-C—and even high-end smartphones—astonishingly good. Yet the fundamental physics of light collection, optical rendering, and provenance keep full-frame relevant for professionals and serious enthusiasts. Think of AI as a multiplier: the bigger and cleaner your starting data, the more you can push it. If your work or passion lives where every photon and every pixel counts, a full-frame body is still the most future-proof starting point.With AI do we need Full Frame Cameras?



May 15, 2025 at 07:43 PM
bernardl
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p.1 #6 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


To me AI based noise reduction, namely DxO that is the best, doesn't remove the benefits of FF.

What it does is at least 3 things:
- since the algos are very good at preserving detail, they favor higher res bodies such as the Z9 or a1II vs lower bodies like the D6/R1 that used to have an advantage at higher ISOs. This advantage is mostly gone,
- it expands the options in terms of cropping at higher ISOs. Until now a high ISO image was more difficult to crop due to the actual reduction of resolution
- it expands the scope of applications that can be addressed by cameras with smaller sensors, typically more compact ones which opens new doors for cases where the bulk/weight of a FF set up was too high.

Now, this is complicated by the selection of lenses that is typically much wider and deeper for FF bodies. For example I can use my 35mm f1.2 S as a wide lens on my Z9 when I shoot dance rehearsals... I would have no suitable option to go wide at f1.2 on a Nikon APS-C body.

More generally speaking, I think that we need to distinguish AI used as a technical enabler in NR vs generative AI used as a means to back up/replace humans in some complex tasks. Although I do understand the philosophical/safety concerns associated with the latter, I have zero issues with leveraging the benefits of AI for noise reduction.

Cheers,
Bernard



May 15, 2025 at 08:03 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #7 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


In unskilled hands, an AI photo editor is one of the worst and most telling ways to show the world that you don’t know what you’re doing. The signs are obvious and the output is sloppy.

If you take some time, apply some restraint, and go only as far as needed, they can be helpful in some, but not all, situations. They certainly do not replace light hitting pixels yet.



May 15, 2025 at 08:16 PM
bernardl
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p.1 #8 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?




RoamingScott wrote:
In unskilled hands, an AI photo editor is one of the worst and most telling ways to show the world that you don’t know what you’re doing. The signs are obvious and the output is sloppy.

If you take some time, apply some restraint, and go only as far as needed, they can be helpful in some, but not all, situations. They certainly do not replace light hitting pixels yet.


What are you referring to when you write AI photo editor?

Cheers,
Bernard



May 15, 2025 at 10:15 PM
PixiPhotography
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p.1 #9 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?



Yes. High res gives a lot of flexibility to crop, noise reduction, dynamic range, prints.. etc



May 15, 2025 at 10:20 PM
LostLensCap
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p.1 #10 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


There isn't much skill using Topaz, most people just use the AUTO PILOT and take whatever it gives. I did see some ugly artifacts on one of the cellphone shots used it with. The subject (a person) looked much better but the surrounding people in the crowd looked like something out of a sy-fy movie.


May 15, 2025 at 11:05 PM
NissanPatrol
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p.1 #11 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


There will be days when mounting a professional camera on a drown that knows how to follow a bird, there will be a day when such thing is feasible money wise.

I know the technology is already out there.

Will it be as enjoyable as it used to be when succeeding in taking a good bif image with Nikon D-500 camera?

why the harder it is, is the most satisfying?




May 15, 2025 at 11:32 PM
LostLensCap
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p.1 #12 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


NissanPatrol wrote:
There will be days when mounting a professional camera on a drown that knows how to follow a bird, there will be a day when such thing is feasible money wise.

I know the technology is already out there.

Will it be as enjoyable as it used to be when succeeding in taking a good bif image with Nikon D-500 camera?

why the harder it is, is the most satisfying?


I agree. Technology is taking the fun out of all art.



May 15, 2025 at 11:36 PM
lsquare
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p.1 #13 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?




LostLensCap wrote:
There isn't much skill using Topaz, most people just use the AUTO PILOT and take whatever it gives. I did see some ugly artifacts on one of the cellphone shots used it with. The subject (a person) looked much better but the surrounding people in the crowd looked like something out of a sy-fy movie.


What does Topaz's autopilot setting actually do? How do I fit that into a Lightroom workflow?



May 16, 2025 at 05:36 PM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #14 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


LostLensCap wrote:
I agree. Technology is taking the fun out of all art.


Come join us!



https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1875878/



May 16, 2025 at 07:12 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #15 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


LostLensCap wrote:
I agree. Technology is taking the fun out of all art.


I just want the AI for noise and sometimes upscaling a bit.
Photography can be worthwhile without being fun nor art.

EBH



May 16, 2025 at 07:38 PM
LostLensCap
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p.1 #16 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


EB-1 wrote:
I just want the AI for noise and sometimes upscaling a bit.
Photography can be worthwhile without being fun nor art.

EBH

When photography is no longer fun and or art then what will be the point?




May 16, 2025 at 07:49 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #17 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


bernardl wrote:
What are you referring to when you write AI photo editor?

Cheers,
Bernard



A program that examines an entire photo and uses AI to wholly edit it...Topaz Photo AI for instance.

There are a number of applications of AI that are good and advisable if you put work into making them invisible to the viewer...editing out unwanted objects and noise reduction being the two best.

However...take a lazy photographer, and have them do an AI sky replacement without understanding light, and the photo suddenly has a jarring uncanny feeling that even they might feel but not understand why.



May 16, 2025 at 09:05 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #18 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


LostLensCap wrote:
When photography is no longer fun and or art then what will be the point?



The point is to capture the images. Some pain and suffering are often required.

EBH



May 17, 2025 at 12:24 AM
LostLensCap
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p.1 #19 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


EB-1 wrote:
The point is to capture the images. Some pain and suffering are often required.

EBH

And capturing the image is what most of us find fun with photography. But, when technology makes capturing images no more challenging than blinking ones eyes, what will be the point?



May 17, 2025 at 10:40 AM
Desmolicious
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p.1 #20 · With Ai do we really need high res FF cameras?


EB-1 wrote:
The point is to capture the images. Some pain and suffering are often required.

EBH


I have had a paper cut from unspooling a roll of 120.



May 17, 2025 at 11:44 AM
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