I have been switching between Olympus and Nikon but got serious in bird/wildlife in past -~6 months and currently using Olympus with 300mm/f4. I love the compact size for stationary and slow moving but struggling badly in BIF (some of it is user error).
8-10 days back I bought EM1X and then realized that I can get D500/D780 with 300 or even 500PF in almost same cost, maintaining the similar weight though size and volume will go up. So I started wondering if I should rather return EM1X for Nikon kit.
In the past I did try D500 but cancelled the idea thinking it’s too big for casual shooting as I was not much into bird/wildlife then. I also still have D750 though has not seen much usage in recent months.
I'd not even look at the 780 if you're coming from an Olympus. It simply doesn't put enough pixels on the subject. Frankly the D750 you already own will be 95% as good at long lens work, and can run a grip (the D780 does have better AF tracking and high ISO, but not night & day better) . Plus the D780 puts you at a fps/buffer disadvantage compared to your E-M1X or a D500.
The D500+500/5.6PF will give you very similar pixel density to the Oly setup, with better AF tracking. And in a package that's actually smaller & lighter than the E-M1X (the D500 does not need its grip for max performance, just handling & battery life and the 500pf is just about the same size & weight as the 300/4 Pro).
Can't speak to the performance of the Olympus, but I've been happy with the D500/500mm PF combo since buying it a year or so ago. In full sun a few months ago, I was able to hand hold the D500 + 500mm +1.4x combo to shoot a kingfisher as it fished over a pond and hit 8 out of 11 shots.
Further to my first impressions, the IQ at high ISOs is indeed excellent. I have since evaluated test photos of birds etc deliberately taken > 6400 and higher. Unlike the Z6 and Z7, the D780 allows silent shooting at shutter speeds > 1/2000. I cannot find confirmation of this difference in the Nikon manual etc but the exif confirm this eg 1/3200.
I shoot the D780 alongside the D850, which is more lenient on cropping, obviously. The AFC of the D780 is not in the class of the D5 engine for serious action but it performs well IF you keep the subject in the narrower AF window.
Sagar wrote:
I have been switching between Olympus and Nikon but got serious in bird/wildlife in past -~6 months and currently using Olympus with 300mm/f4. I love the compact size for stationary and slow moving but struggling badly in BIF (some of it is user error).
8-10 days back I bought EM1X and then realized that I can get D500/D780 with 300 or even 500PF in almost same cost, maintaining the similar weight though size and volume will go up. So I started wondering if I should rather return EM1X for Nikon kit.
In the past I did try D500 but cancelled the idea thinking it’s too big for casual shooting as I was not much into bird/wildlife then. I also still have D750 though has not seen much usage in recent months.
There are some unfortunate truths. The Nikon DSLR, will never be smaller but will almost always be heavier. If you are ok with those truths, then the D500 and 300mm PF would make for an excellent wildlife kit.
I am not familiar with the Olympus system, but I am surprised to hear that the camera is struggling with BIF. Most of the photographers I spoke to have praised the system's AF. The most common criticism (pertaining to wildlife photography) I have heard is in regards to background renderings in certain situations (a f/4 on a MFT sensor is equivalent to an f/8 on a FX sensor).
Are you pleased with the image output of your Olympus?
Overall the D850 has more latitude: landscapes, macro across all wildlife genres. This is subject to constraints of ambient light. It being best to keep the ISO of the D850 (also Z7) < 3200 at maximum.
On the criteria of Weight and AF performance, a Nikon D500 paired with the phase-fresnel primes is arguably the best buy for birding. This holds especially for BIF and typical portraits etc.
FX is better in challenging light: optimum are a D5 or D6 (equally in the most extreme weather). With its Z6 sensor, we now have the option of the more affordable D780. The Z6 is an option, but as with the Z7 bear in mind the AFC has its limits in comparison to all these DSLRs.
Thank you everyone. I ordered 300mm PF and 1.4xTC still deciding on the camera. May be will use it with D750 till I figure it out.
Looking at used prices, I thinking if it will make sense to take a plunge and directly go for D850. Even with that I will end up saving some $$ compared with to Oly kit.
Only reason I am tempted by D780 is its buffer capacity (100-70) which I believe could help in BIF shots. But then it almost cost as much as used D850...this is becoming so complicate
Yes and that’s when I started thinking about D850 thinking in crop mode it would be just like D500...at least in theory don’t know how effective it could be in reality
skamaraju wrote:
Don't you think 420mm (300+1.4X on FF) is limiting for BIF?
Sagar wrote:
Yes and that’s when I started thinking about D850 thinking in crop mode it would be just like D500...at least in theory don’t know how effective it could be in reality
Remember, 420mm on APS-C at 19-20MP (D850 cropped or D500) is the same basic pixels on subject as the plain 300mm f4 Pro on a 20MP m43 body. The combo if ungripped will actually be slightly smaller and lighter than the E-M1X+300mm f4 Pro
this is however why I do recommend the 500mm PF as the replacement for the 300mm f4 Pro though, it's close in cost and gives you that extra reach even before you stick a TC in the mix.
Sagar wrote:
Thank you everyone. I ordered 300mm PF and 1.4xTC still deciding on the camera. May be will use it with D750 till I figure it out.
Looking at used prices, I thinking if it will make sense to take a plunge and directly go for D850. Even with that I will end up saving some $$ compared with to Oly kit.
Only reason I am tempted by D780 is its buffer capacity (100-70) which I believe could help in BIF shots. But then it almost cost as much as used D850...this is becoming so complicate
Note the D780 buffer limits you significantly vs the D500, and it brings nothing to the table for BiF unless you are willing to invest in the big/fast exotics to get the extra reach necessary to make up for the low pixel density.
For BiF, you are MUCH better off with a D500 than a D780, especially since you already have a D750 to cover non-BiF uses.
Unless you are buying used Sagar how are you getting the 300, 1.4 and camera for something close to the E-M1X? Nikon USA lists the 300 and 1.4 TC cost to be $2500, get Olympus shows E-M1X for $2400...so you've already spent more and no camera yet.
I ask because I too have considered this change...don't have the 300 f4 Pro but I am getting nice results and good keeper rate of running dogs at close range once I set the OM-D E-M1 III to + 2 and turned off the IBIS.
Dan I was referring to total cost of EM1X and 300mm f4 Pro. In more or less same price one can get 500pf and D500/even D780 (both prices assumed as new) or with used D850...that’s my logic I may be wrong though
Dan Starr wrote:
Unless you are buying used Sagar how are you getting the 300, 1.4 and camera for something close to the E-M1X? Nikon USA lists the 300 and 1.4 TC cost to be $2500, get Olympus shows E-M1X for $2400...so you've already spent more and no camera yet.
I ask because I too have considered this change...don't have the 300 f4 Pro but I am getting nice results and good keeper rate of running dogs at close range once I set the OM-D E-M1 III to + 2 and turned off the IBIS.
I actually tried but couldn’t find 500PF in stock anywhere :-(
mawz wrote:
Remember, 420mm on APS-C at 19-20MP (D850 cropped or D500) is the same basic pixels on subject as the plain 300mm f4 Pro on a 20MP m43 body. The combo if ungripped will actually be slightly smaller and lighter than the E-M1X+300mm f4 Pro
this is however why I do recommend the 500mm PF as the replacement for the 300mm f4 Pro though, it's close in cost and gives you that extra reach even before you stick a TC in the mix.
I think you are right D500 is probably best bet lusting for D850 is probably GAS
mawz wrote:
Note the D780 buffer limits you significantly vs the D500, and it brings nothing to the table for BiF unless you are willing to invest in the big/fast exotics to get the extra reach necessary to make up for the low pixel density.
For BiF, you are MUCH better off with a D500 than a D780, especially since you already have a D750 to cover non-BiF uses.
Got it Sagar...and yes the 300 f4 Pro is crazy expensive in my mind and only going up new. The D500 is the one I am always thinking would be the sweet one to get performance to price ratio especially. Good luck with the new equipment.
I would just go for the D500...you get 10FPS without adding a battery grip and big battery like you need to just to get 9FPS on the D850. D850 is good for an all rounder and can do pretty much everything the D500 can do but D500 is a more specialized tool for BIF and I like using it over the D850 these days.
arbitrage wrote:
I would just go for the D500...you get 10FPS without adding a battery grip and big battery like you need to just to get 9FPS on the D850. D850 is good for an all rounder and can do pretty much everything the D500 can do but D500 is a more specialized tool for BIF and I like using it over the D850 these days.
+1 agree 100% for BIF and action in general, also reach, and also the higher (relative) area of AF sensor in the OVF. The D500 remains a bargain, especially low-mileage Used, with the D850 getting closer as Used prices drop ;-)
It's quite clear at least for my needs and experience, subject to budget:
BIF: D5 > D500 > D850 > D780 > Df
All Purposes - including macro, landscapes et al: D850 > D500 / > D780 > D5 > D4S/Df
Lowlight: D5 (D6) > > D780/D4S > Df > D850 > D500
Tendency to Crop - in (almost all) wildlife genres: D850 > D780 > D500 > D5 (D6) > D4S/Df
The biggest advantage the D500 has over the D850, for me, is the VF, I prefer to see the bird in the D500's VF because the bird appears bigger (you're seeing it at the 1.5 crop)
This is even more helpful for BIF where you need to find and focus on the bird before you're ready to shoot.
