p.1 #1 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
I am interested in purchasing the 5Ds for photographing artwork for giclee printing and was wondering if anybody has any feedback on using the camera for this purpose. Also lens suggestions would be great.
p.1 #2 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
Isn't 'giclee' just a fancy word for inkjet?
I think you may need to be a bit more specific with the subjects you photograph before anyone can render any good feedback for you (potential print sizes would help, as well).
p.1 #3 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
Yes, it is just a fancy word for sprayed ink.
I've been using the 5DS R for a couple of months now and recently photographed a series of art quilts with it. The best color I've ever had shooting copy work of any type of art with the least amount of post shooting color correction to match the originals (using CaptureOne 8 not Lr) and not a hint of moiré anywhere. My primary lens for this was the Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, which is phenomenally sharp across the frame, has a very flat field of focus and virtually no geometric distortion. Cannot recommend this lens highly enough.
I would also highly recommend the 90mm t/s-e which will allow you to make stitched 100 mp files and the macro lens of your choice.
Whether 50 mp is enough for you depends on how big you're going to go and how demanding your clients are. I just did a test shot with the 90 t/s, stitched for that 100 mp file, then made a test print that was a 12 x 44 inch swath out of a 96 inch wide print. Just to see what it would look like, and it was damned good even though the native res at that size was 116 dpi.
This is my favorite Canon to date. Best image quality at a great price.
p.1 #4 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
I used my 5D2 with a 100 L 2 macro to make inkjet prints on textured art paper of some Japanese bird-flower prints from an 1887 7x10"bound book of originals - the 20 odd MP were more than enough to make 13x19 prints - I could even restore some of the faded colour. Worked very nicely.
However, Jeff's points are spot on - it may end up determining how big a copy stand or wall-lighting system you will need. Reproduction- original artwork to output size? Simple "cloning of the original etc... Is any distortion acceptable etc
p.1 #5 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
Jeff wrote:
Isn't 'giclee' just a fancy word for inkjet?
I think you may need to be a bit more specific with the subjects you photograph before anyone can render any good feedback for you (potential print sizes would help, as well).
Yeah.
Usually when people mention giclee they are referring to digital inkjet print on canvas.
That said I think the O.P. needs to worry more about the color profile of the camera and overall color management and lighting. Systems like Hasselblad Digital and PhaseOne are closely paired with their own software to produce consistent results that are quite color accurate. PhaseOn C1pro software supposedly handles the newer Sony A7RII files superbly.
I have not seen great color out of the 5DS/R files out of the stock Adobe Lightroom profile for the 5DS/R. I am sure with a nicer profile the resulting files will be much better in regards to color. Resolution wise the 5DS/R when paired with the best glass and technique is stunning. No problem there.
p.1 #8 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
Depending on what you're copying, and with most types of paint pigments, the Color Checker is of little real use as the pigments in that have little to do with those in the art. It all depends on the pigments and how they react to the lights you're using shoot with. In the aforementioned job, five of the six quilts were super quick with Capture One's default profile, but the one giant quilt that was made with all hand dyed fabrics - well, that one took a lot more work and I had to make individual selections to come close to matching the colors on that one. And, of course, that's also the one that went to print for the invitation for the show, but that's a whole 'nother color story. There were areas of red next to reddish brown that were completely distinct to the human eye that were rendered initially to the exact same color. And because there was no consistency in the types of dyes used to make the colors, the only way to "profile" that would be to make your own color checker or profile target using those same dyes that were used to make the fabrics, measure that with your spectrophotometer and make a profile from that. Not worth it for a one off project but maybe if you had a hundred to do, and then it would be much more effective to make a real ICC input profile that could be used in Capture One or Iridient Developer rather than what really amounts to a Color Checker profile tweak to Adobe's secret internal profiles.
p.1 #9 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
In no way am I an expert in this area - far from it actually - I am a wedding photog. That said, I recently used my 5DSR and the 85L at F5.6 to make a image file of a 36x60 painting for an artist friend. I tried a few different lenses but settled on the 85L @ F5.6. The 85L @ F5.6 has a near perfect lens profile from edge to edge. Take a look at slrgear.com at their Blur chart - you will not see better than this. I'm sure a new Otus has higher resolving power but every single brush stroke and the thickness of the paint at every single spot on the painting was clear enough to further enlarge this already large painting.
With the above said, I don't think this really has everything to do with it but lets say this is 40% of the battle - the right lens in the right position with a 5DSR.
Far more important is the lighting and the colours and whether you can replicate them on the printer of your choosing. It took me about 4 prints on my Canon printer before I was basically happy with how Lightroom was interpreting the colours and sending them to the printer.
I think the post above nails it. There are so many distinct colours that the human eye can pick up and if you really want to replicate what the artist has done - this is where the possibly enormous effort will take place to 'match' all the little colours.
Getting it 92% is easy, getting it 95% requires some work - getting that last 5% is another matter entirely.
p.1 #10 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
The digital imaging store where I work is upgrading from a 16 megapixel Nikon and is interested in the new 5DSR and I thought I'd get input here. We do a lot of fine art printing and digital capture for local artists using a specialized studio with stringent color management. The type of lighting can vary with an artworks medium, reflection and texture. We also have an experienced printmaker who has literally the best color skills I have ever seen so in addition to color management manual proofing is also employed to ensure color is as close as possible to the original artwork. We have been getting requests to photograph more and more really large pieces (say 4' by 6' or larger) and the extra pixels are necessary (right now we don't do anything that large with the equipment we have). We do large format printing on Epson printers on a variety of substrates from canvas to different watercolor papers to regular photo papers. The largest we print is 44" by ? (if it's on a roll). A Hasselblad would be nice but isn't within the budget unfortunately. I was just curious about experience with this camera for this purpose.
p.1 #11 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
Have you considered alternatives to a new camera?
Can't you just do a multi-shot pano?
You could go well beyond the single shot resolution from any current sensor.
There are also several solutions for automating the process.
p.1 #12 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
I got the sigma 50 art lens partly for the lack of barrel distortion and sharpness in photographing flat artwork.
I don't have the 5ds but the measly 5d3.
p.1 #13 · Is anybody using the Canon 5Ds for fine art capture and lens suggestions
We do this professionally for museums, galleries, and big time collectors
Giclée is fancy term for archival inkjet (actual French connotation is somewhat an unsavory dirty slang expression) started by Graham Nash (yes that Graham Nash, from Crosby Stills and Nash fame) There are standards for these prints so not just any inkjet is a true giclée by definition.
Our methods of capture evolution went something like this:
1. 4x5 Ektachrome using Sinar P2 and cross polarized lighting (quartz hot lights) then Drum Scanned on in-house Heidelberg Tango ...Color was excellent and resolution exceptional but took days to final product delivered. Also, drum scanner not supported very well, software has been over 12 years since last supported update...film hard to come by and development of film even harder to come by....
2. Betterlight 8K scan back and Sinar P2...Color was excellent and resolution was exceptional but took too long to make good captures (some single captures took over an hour each) and product was discontinued and unsupported...
3. Canon 5D2 with TSE lenses and x/y moving easels for stitching large files....color was horrible and required countless hours of post to get anywhere near film or scan back. Still, was not bad and took slightly less time than film2drum or scan back and was supported well. So we used it for small projects for less demanding clients like individual artists and small collections for insurance purposes, rarely for giclée work.
4. Hasselblad and Sinar Exact Multishot backs...color and resolution excellent when the whole system worked but overall the process took too long and numerous hardware failures on the job. Multishot backs require some serious camera support and dead-on constancy in lighting. Too much pia and seriously jaw dropping expensive (not kidding and we have clients who normally don't care, but even some of them did double takes on cost)
5. PhaseOne and Leaf single shot backs with tech cams and CaptureOne...Best of all worlds so far and is what we use currently. Color not as good as ms backs or even film but only takes a few skilled seconds in C1 to match or exceed quality achieved previously. 80MP per shot in true 16bit capture thru the best SK and Roddie glass with best lighting achieved using hot lights (still cross polarized) = jaw dropping accuracy, resolution, and output.
We will try the new Canon 5DSr soon using a Cambo tech cam to see how it compares. We have high hopes but do not think it will be as good as the mfd gear for this, but probably good enough for over 50% of routine capture work for insurance and web display...and maybe even giclée printing. Pretty impressive camera and sensor I think, but there is something about good old CCD sensors when it comes to art repro work. I don't know why but even our PhaseOne IQ250 (50MP Sony mfd sensor) can not match it for accuracy...but its darn close....
