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alrac
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Registered: Apr 8, 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 445
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Review Date: Sep 5, 2010
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: Not Indicated
| Rating: 9
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Pros:
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Lightweight, good bright viewfinder and LCD, decent price, decently rugged, sensor cleaner, 14-bit RAW, long battery life
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Cons:
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Firmware not upgradeable, no spot-metering, not weather-sealed
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I've used this for a couple years and it is an excellent little camera, both for beginners and more advanced users. As other reviewers have said, have some realistic expectations if you're moving up from a point-and-shoot-- any DSLR is significantly different from a P&S. There is a learning curve, and there are no magic camera pixies who make every photo perfect. The photographer is more important than the camera. Study the manual, learn the fundamental photography skills, learn how to use digital editing software, and you'll get great photos with this camera.
If you're looking to buy one of these used and the price is right, do not hesitate. If you have a limited budget, it is better to buy the best lenses you can. Good lenses are forever, and Canon lenses hold their value.
It shoots both high-resolution JPG and 14-bit RAW. 14-bit RAW means you get abundant editing headroom. The nine-point autofocus is reasonably fast and accurate, though it struggles in low light and low-contrast situations. (For only a few thousand dollars more the 1D series handle low-light and low-contrast very capably.)
You get a lot of flexibility; it comes with the preset "Scenes", shutter priority, aperture priority, auto-aperture priority, and full manual operation. It has exposure bracketing, AE lock, both light and RGB histograms, mirror lock, and a whole lot of other functionality.
This a nice inexpensive good-quality DSLR for beginners, and a satisfactory camera for more advanced users. It fits my small hands, and it's not too heavy to lug along on hikes. I carry it on hikes with two lenses in a Lowepro Flipside 200, which accommodates even a long telephoto.
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 Sep 5, 2010
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Edgars Kalnins
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Registered: Mar 9, 2007
Location: Latvia
Posts: 712
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Review Date: Aug 4, 2010
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: Not Indicated
| Rating: 9
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Pros:
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inexpensive, light, reliable
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Cons:
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high ISO noise, auto focus could be better
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This was the first SLR I used. great tool to learn photography, very affordable. Now I use xxD line and would not want to go back. The viewfinder of the bigger ones is nicer and of course they feel better in hand. However, if you are just starting or do not plan to shoot a lot, this is a very good choice!
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Aug 4, 2010
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ManofMustard
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Registered: May 4, 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 0
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Review Date: May 4, 2010
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: $700.00
| Rating: 10
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Pros:
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Lightweight, great images, easy to use, great camera to learn (or learn) photography, accessories are cheap
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Cons:
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ISO performance 400 & above
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I purchased this camera in the summer of 2007 before a big trip to Europe. I have had SLR's of some sort since I was 17 (early 80's), so I knew my way around a camera. I thought I knew much more than I really did & found that this was a great camera to relearn photography on.
Normally I don't post reviews since I generally agree with other reviewers, however, I must feel after reading the review of Wazzo that readers need a different viewpoint. It seems as if he has a chip on his shoulder from his comments.
First off, this is a consumer camera, not the top of the line canon DSLR 1 series, so the technology isn't as good, but it is still damn good!
During my 9 week trip through Europe & the UK, I took over 8700 pictures. I did my best to protect it, however, my camera still got wet from many a downpour. While the camera is not weather sealed, it never missed a beat. I took 2 batteries on the trip and seldom needed to use the 2nd battery (usually when I forgot to charge the first). I found I could go almost a week before having to charge the batteries. Mostly non-flash shots I could get 700+ pictures. Since my trip, say during airshows, I have found I could get over 800 pictures before having to change batteries.
I have found in my nearly 3 years owning the camera that the autofocus is really pretty good. I always set my autofocus point as the centerpoint tho (I focus then recompose). It is the best shooting things (& people of course) with lots of contrast. Shooting hazy landscapes I find I get more accurate focus if I focus manually. I went to the Olympics in Vancouver (Ski Jumping) & found I could get in focus pictures easily with this camera. Shooting at air shows was a different matter, the high speeds made it difficult for the camera to lock on, so I set my lens to manual.
The AF selector button does get used a fair amount when shooting landscapes. People who want to learn how to use the camera will find the button a good asset, not a hinderance.
A few times I have made it to the studio, I have found I can use a sync speed of 1/250 sec (its rated at 1/200 sec). But don't expect this higher speed if you are using any of the program modes, as the camera tends to set the shutter speed at 1/60 no matter what. (I get the higher sync speed using manual, Tv or Av).
His complaints about manual focus are completely idiotic. If you can't tell if it is focus, then adjust the diopter or get your eyes checked. In the good old days, SLR's would have a split screen that allowed manual focus much easier than today (match the two halves & it would be in focus). The beauty of todays cameras is you can take as many pictures are your memory cards allow & if you are unsure if the picture is in focus, recompose & reshoot.
Last summer I took pictures of his local fireworks show & downloaded them onto his mac without the use of the canon software. No problems. Maybe it was because its a mac? (I use windows.....).
I find that when my daughter uses the camera, she sets everything to full auto because she doesn't want to work about all those numbers & flashing lights (see just wants quality pictures).
I find the grip is a good size for me (I do have smaller hands for a guy) & others who have used my camera didn't complain about the grip size.
I do find the ISO performance 400 & above to be lacking. I use ISO 100 85% of the time & ISO 400 about 10% of the time (low light situations). Out of the 21,000 total pictures, maybe a 50 or so above 800. I don't like to compromise between a sharp shot & the use of noise reduction (noise reduction softens the image).
The location of all the buttons & the screen are good for me, although I wish there was more eye relief on the viewfinder. My nose sometimes changes the a few of the perimeters (or maybe I have a big nose).
Given the technology now, this is a great 1st DSLR for people. Plus, the money you have saved by buying used will allow you to buy better lenses. As lenses are what is responsible for great pictures (besides you, of course). Do you really need above 10 meg anyway? Not really. At a class I took recently, the teacher told use that many of the pictures he took for billboards were done on cameras in the 3-6 meg range (he is a working pro w/ 25+ years experience).
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May 4, 2010
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ksvraja
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Registered: Jan 23, 2009
Location: India
Posts: 0
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Review Date: Jan 23, 2009
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: Not Indicated
| Rating: 8
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Pros:
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lightweight, easy handling, Great Picture Quality
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Cons:
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Auto focus uses flash in low light condition, noise at ISO over 800
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Got a new 400D with a year before from India, and using for the past one year with kit lens...
Got nice landscape & portrait photographs using the kit lens. I dont use much of flash, so the battery life comes upto 500 - 600 shots.
For indoor, the built in flash makes the subject bright and the background dark.. needs to get an external flash..
So far, so good and satisfied with the results.. you can have a look at my photos over here..
http://picasaweb.google.com/ksvraja
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Jan 23, 2009
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riversen
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Registered: Apr 7, 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 6
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Review Date: Dec 19, 2008
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: $625.00
| Rating: 10
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Pros:
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This is a pretty great little camera for the price and for what it aims to do. I think you have to have realistic expectations for $400 to $550. This is NOT a 30D or 5D or any of the bigger cameras.
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Cons:
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I wish it had spot metering and that Canon would finally give us something so basic with a firmware upgrade. Ugh!
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I like the camera. The ISO is pretty good for the technology. I know that we can sit down and wait a week and the all of technology will be replaced by the bigger and better. I think you will like this camera if you are on a budget or just need a cheap 2nd camera. Also, if you don't absolutely have to have spot metering, this is also good. Yes, the Xsi has better ISO range and can certainly out perform the Xti... but isn't that what should happen with newer technology? I highly recommend this camera.
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Dec 19, 2008
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PJ Fish
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Registered: Nov 24, 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 18
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Review Date: Nov 5, 2008
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Recommend? |
Price paid: Not Indicated
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Pros:
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OK camera for the time at 2004 ! the pics you get is very fine indeed-
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Cons:
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too slow and too plasticky and the silver colour is awfull-very noisy after 400 iso. too plasticky!
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Hmm time passes and i remember i bought this cam as an back to a back up for my work at Olympic games in Greece back in 2004.
well time passes and at that time i thought it was almost too slow mainly because of the slow handling of the buffer and alike.
well, if you have the time and place for it and have a lot of patience you can make pics as good as Canon 10 D and almost as the Canon 20D .
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Nov 5, 2008
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WazzoTheMartia
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Registered: May 29, 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 0
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Review Date: Jul 28, 2008
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Recommend? no |
Price paid: $850.00
| Rating: 4
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Pros:
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Excellent sensor, great RAW processing tool (DPP), reasonable price.
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Cons:
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Second-rate autofocus, can't properly review the shot in the field, small hand grip.
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To read the full story and see the example shots go here: http://warrenmars.com/pictures/camera/canon_400d/review.htm
For those who can't bothered, here's the simple analysis.
First the bad:
- Most significantly the auto focus, auto exposure and white balance are inferior to any modern compact. This is due to the fact that these parameters are determined by little auxiliary sensors which are greatly inferior in quality to the main sensor. Reviewers really ought to state this clearly in any entry level SLR review, since it will surprise and disappoint anyone from a compact background who expects these things to work properly.
You need to review every shot you take immediately because not only will the exposure often be not as you might expect but it alter even when repeating the shot. Auto white balance will be reliable under blue skies, but clouds and shade or partial clouds will confuse it. Either set the correct white balance at the time or shoot RAW and fix it later.
Autofocus is the greatest problem and the extent to which you can make it work with this dodgy SIR setup will determine whether you will make the grade as a photographer with Canon gear. You will get unpredictable results focusing on certain types of foliage, certain types of hair, subjects in lowish light, subjects of one colour, subjects that are not flat, certain lenses etc, etc, etc. It really is not good. It is my assessment that this is a problem common to most Canon SLRs, not just the 400D and not just the specimen I bought. Read more here: http://warrenmars.com/pictures/camera/canon_focus/canon_focus.htm
It's not good enough for Canon to put a little warning in small print at the back of the manual that gives no real idea of the extent of the problem. It is my opinion that if a camera gives the focus lock sound, then you should have the focus that you want. With this camera there is no guarantee. This is not to say that it can't focus at all. You will get at least some keepers, so long as your body and lenses are correctly calibrated, but you can never be sure until you see it on your computer screen. Which brings me to my next complaint.
- The LCD is an ok size and ok resolution without being class leading, the problem is that you can't see a 100% crop of a shot on this screen. You can magnify the image to what APPEARS to be 100% but it's not the full image, only a moderate sized thumbnail which makes all shots look soft whether they are or not, so you really cannot tell if your shot was properly sharp whilst in the field. This is unacceptable quite frankly. You can tell with compacts, so why not the 400D?
- The battery is a little small. Don't believe any reviews that quote 500 - 600 shots. They are lying or they used an ultra low energy regime. Using a few flash shots, continuous review and a fair bit of telephoto zooming I get around 200 shots per charge. This is just ok, so long as you always take a charged up spare, because you WILL run out.
- In one of the most stupid decisions that one can imagine, Canon have set the flash to slow syncro by default. Until you consult the manual and figure out how change it to 1/200 sec in the custom functions you will get blurred shots every time you use the flash. Amazing! How could they be so stupid? How could the famous reviewers have failed to mention this?
- Yes, the only normal timer setting is 10 sec. There is no excuse for this. Compacts give a much better range of options and there is no reason SLRs should be any worse. You can use the mirror lock up in conjunction which will give you a 2 sec delay. It's a bit more mucking around but I used it.
- I question the value of the AF point select button. It seems like a waste of space. Surely anyone with any understanding will set it to centre point only and leave it there. People with no understanding will leave it on all points selected. This option could be happily put into the menu structure and the button either done away with or used for something more important.
BTW this begs the question as to why the damn manufacturers keep producing more expensive and complex auto focus units with more points when all we need is one really good one in the centre!
- As a general rule you can't really use the manual focus. Sure the facility is always there, but except in rare circumstances you can't tell by eye whether the subject is fully sharp. it may look sharp in the viewfinder but probably won't be on the computer screen. I know that all the SLRs have this problem, so we can't blame Canon for this one, but it would be nice if one could see whether a correction needed to be made before pressing the shutter release.
- The information bar in the viewfinder blinks off after just a few seconds. You need to half press the shutter to renew it. It should be always on and auto renew.
- The zoom in and out buttons used in image review make only small jumps. You have to press far too many times to zoom fully in, and then you have to hold it down to zoom all the way back out again. Very clumsy! Not that it matters since you can't tell if the pics are in focus anyway.
- The hand grip is a little small for most men's hands. Mind you, this is not a deal breaker since you DO get used to it. Still, it doesn't feel as natural as its competitors.
- The 400D body is only partly configured as a standard USB mass transfer device. This means that unless you have Canon EOS software installed or use a card reader, you can download JPG files but not RAW. This is just game playing on Canon's part, forcing us to use their software. Get out of it Canon, you're selling cameras, not software. Stop trying to control us!
- Get rid of the damn basic zone. If you need to use full auto or modes such as closeup or portrait you shouldn't be buying an SLR! Those spots on the mode wheel could be far better employed for user defined custom functions, my A610 had one custom spot, why not the 400D? By the way, as far as I can ascertain the ADep doesn't work.
Now for the good!
- IFF you get everything right and use a good lens you DO get great IQ! IFF!!!
- The Canon CMOS sensor is about 1 stop more sensitive than the Sony/Nikon CCD sensor giving better low noise high ISO performance.
- The ergonomics work well. The one button access to white balance, ISO speed, drive mode and focus mode is totally the right way to go. And the shooting display is big and clear. These things are much better than the Nikon way.
- You get an AF lock fast under almost any conditions other than a flat monochrome surface. Whether it is accurate is another matter...
- ISO performance really is at least a couple of stops better than any compact. You can shoot at ISO 800 with confidence that the IQ will be excellent and ISO 400 is nearly indistinguishable from ISO 100! I use it by default. ISO 1600 is usable but not top quality.
- It has all the features offered by its competition at the time, and often more than them.
- It is small and light for an APS SLR and with a small lens can be semi-inconspicuous...
- You can shoot RAW + JPG which gives you the best of both worlds.
- The latest Digital Photo Professional is a great piece of free kit, enabling you to SIMPLY and ACCURATELY correct the most common problems in a RAW shot. Such as exposure, white balance and lens distortion. I have used other 3rd party software such as Photoshop and ACDSee Pro, but this makes it SO easy. You wish you had another stop of exposure? just move the slider up a stop. You really wanted Cloudy white balance? select Cloudy! Want to get rid of the barrel distortion? tick the distortion box. If your version of DPP has the correct lens profile it will simply fix it! Now that's impressive! Photoshop can claim to do all this stuff but I assure you it is not nearly so easy or accurate, when you use the DPP sliders you get THE ACTUAL effect you would have got if you had set those parameters when the shot was taken, this is because Canon know the software inside their cameras, Adobe don't. True, Nikon and others provide RAW editing tools with their SLRs but DPP is fast, powerful and intuitive, it's much better to use.
- It is or was the best value for money provided you can live with the problems.
And that's about it. The 450D has arrived on the scene and I have seen some excellent photos taken with it, however I have also read plenty of complaints about front focusing. The contrast detect auto focusing in Live View is the thing that I most fancy but from what I have read it doesn't seem that it is the real world answer to focusing issues just yet.
For me the AF was unacceptably bad and I eventually tried out a Sony A100, a Nikon D70 and a D60 which I liked so much that I bought it and sold all my Canon stuff. The Nikon gives me the results that I expected when I decided to get into the SLR world. this doesn't mean that the D60 or the Nikon system are perfect, not at all, Canon is better at most things but I can live with Nikon's little irritations. What I can't live with is Out Of Focus shots! At the end of the day, there is NOTHING more important than focus.
The 400D doesn't focus properly.
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Jul 28, 2008
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Ericson C.
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Registered: Aug 5, 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 221
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Review Date: Jul 23, 2008
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: $645.00
| Rating: 4
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Pros:
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Price, great camera to learn on.
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Cons:
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Poor ISO performance, small and has a cheap plastic-feel, bad ergonomics.
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This was my first SLR. The ISO performance is pretty bad at 800+. The controls are hard to use if you have big hands. THe BG-E3 battery grip helps the feel a bit, but the camera still feels pretty cheap.
All that aside, it still can take great photos. Great entry-level DSLR, and I would recommend it to any beginner. Though, I do wish I spent a couple more bones to get the 30D.
DOH!
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Jul 23, 2008
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Vishal
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Registered: Feb 3, 2008
Location: India
Posts: 30
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Review Date: Jul 2, 2008
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: $579.95
| Rating: 10
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Pros:
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Size, Rugged, LightWeight, Looks, Easy-to-Use Camera & Menu, Sensor Cleaning, Price & Great Image Quality.
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Cons:
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No real negative things as such, if anything ISO limited to 1600.
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Its performance & ease-of-use are unparallel, combine that with its economical pricing & you have a winner.
However, any dSLR no matter how expensive is any good without a good lens. The Rebel XTi/400D provides an excellent processing engine for a decent piece of glass attached to it.
Hence, upon asking i've always reccomended a 'BODY ONLY' purchase as i do not think the 18-55mm is among Canon's best lenses but thats another discussion topic altogether.
The only thing with this camera (and i would assume with most cameras) is that you constantly have to keep looking-up & adjust the exposure settings (under/over-expose & ISO) to get the best results as per the shooting environment. Its no big deal, the controls are right beside the shutter-click button & you can even do it whilst shooting, it would only make you a better photographer & make the camera feel like an extension of yourself.
I have pushed the camera to its limits on a lot of occasions like shooting in a mild drizzle (with the camera completely uncovered & exposed the the elements) as well as shooting in outright heavy rains (while covering it with something though the water did get 'ON' the camera on occasions) & banged it a few times, once really badly but thankfully its still working as good as new.
Click here for my photos shot with the Rebel XTi/400D
Cheers - Vishal
http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=30826
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Jul 2, 2008
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spiros skopos
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Registered: Apr 3, 2007
Location: Greece
Posts: 48
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Review Date: Jun 3, 2008
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: Not Indicated
| Rating: 10
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Pros:
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fast AF, handy, easy to use, best value for money, cleaning system
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Cons:
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small viewfinder, iso metering or WB metering not displayed on the screen
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I have this camera for one month and i really love it. Use it for sports and landscape themes after i read many reviews for 2 years! 400d is really an excellent choice and you'll will not be disappointed. You can see some of the pictures i got lately with this cam here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/spiros58/
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Jun 3, 2008
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yohay
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Registered: Mar 9, 2008
Location: Israel
Posts: 1
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Review Date: Mar 19, 2008
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: Not Indicated
| Rating: 9
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Pros:
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good image quality, good price, friendly menu's. lightweight.
ISO800 is not bad. 2.5" screen. dust cleaner on the sensor.
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Cons:
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only one roll control, the ergonomic isn't the best-I use a grip. made of plastical matrials (good, but plastic). there isn't a data screen.
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very good "entry level" DSLR.
the contol, even there is only one roll control, is very comfortable and easy.
the price is very reasonable, and you get a great camera.
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Mar 19, 2008
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Aaron Fuchs
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Registered: Jan 12, 2008
Location: N/A
Posts: 2
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Review Date: Jan 12, 2008
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: Not Indicated
| Rating: 10
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Pros:
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price, size, IQ you get for the price
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Cons:
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built quality, VF, only ISO 1600, ugly and uncomfortable design
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I like the small size of the camera, but the built quality and the design could have been better.
BTW, my camera does expose properly, but I never use the "green" mode...
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Jan 12, 2008
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aVOLanche
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Registered: Apr 7, 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 174
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Review Date: Jan 11, 2008
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: $800.00
| Rating: 10
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Pros:
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Excellent IQ
Great ergonomics
Good price
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Cons:
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None
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Best entry level dslr on the market and I tried ALL the major players.Plus you use the Canon lens system.Really nice camera.
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Jan 11, 2008
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jayceooi
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Registered: Jul 23, 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 14
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Review Date: Dec 12, 2007
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: $736.00
| Rating: 9
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Pros:
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Light weight, good control layout, excellent image quality
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Cons:
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Under expose, small grip, no spot metering
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This is my first SLR. Too bad that my copy has under expose issue. Therefore, I need to adjust most of the photo. Will send to repair soon. :P
The image quality is good when pair with high quality lens. I love it with pair with 50mm 1.4. The images are sharp.
Overall, I am happy with it. Will be happier if no under expose issue. =)
400D photo samples with 50mm 1.4
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Dec 12, 2007
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Doug Weasner
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Registered: Oct 24, 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 221
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Review Date: Nov 25, 2007
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: Not Indicated
| Rating: 8
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Pros:
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10MP gets great results from great glass
Excellent Canon high sensitivity performance
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Cons:
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Grip is subpar
10MP is too much for casual shooting
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From a technical perspective, this is probably as good as it gets in a small SLR. 9 point AF, 10MP, Canon sensor. Where this camera does fall short is from the feel perspective. The grip is a letdown - I didn't notice how bad it was until I tried my recently acquired D40. Also, the sheer size of the output from this camera makes even my pretty high spec computers (quad cores with 2GB+ of RAM choke).
However, with investment in the EOS system, you will get fabulous results from this camera. It gets "wow" from friends and family, after popping for a Tokina 12-24, Tamron 17-50, Tokina 50-135, as well 35 2.0, 50 1.4, and 85 1.8 primes from Canon. A great "8" for this camera body.
I am far from wealthy - I work two jobs to support this habit. When I want serious results, I grab this camera and the solid glass that I can put in front of it. When I just want to have fun, I grab my new D40 and the plastic fantastic 18-55 and 55-200VR lenses because using them is less work.
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Nov 25, 2007
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Dawei Ye
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Registered: Sep 14, 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3763
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Review Date: Nov 20, 2007
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Recommend? yes |
Price paid: $800.00
| Rating: 9
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Pros:
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Very Good Resolution, Very Good Value, All round great camera to use, Makes the Owner very happy
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Cons:
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AF Assist Flash Burst; Limited Self Timer Mode; Slight Image Review Lag; Build Quality; Small viewfinder; Self Cleaning System sucks majorly
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Build: 7; Price: 10; Overall: 9
Paid around $970 AUD for this great photographic tool about 2 months ago. It has been worth every single cent.
Image Quality is very important to me, and the 400D does not disappoint, especially given its price. However, like other cameras, you will need good glass and good skills to get the most out of this camera. I daresay, you really need to know what you are doing to get results that reflect what this camera is capable of. Please, please invest in some good glass otherwise this camera's 10MP sensor is wasted.
This camera is just great. It isn't the easiest to use (The Auto mode sucks compared to that of a Point and Shoot) but it is just all round a great, polished camera. It isn't a premium model by any stretch of the imagination, but it does have very good features and does not feel overly crippled compared to other models. Ok maybe things like the viewfinder should be a bigger and brighter, but this camera still represents excellent value.
Build Quality on the 400D/XTi is much maligned, but honestly, if this is your first dSLR, you won't notice anything. If you are used to the more solid feel of the 40D or more prosumer models, then the 400D may seem a bit toy-ish to you, but this was my first dSLR and I was pleased with the build, as well as the size of the grip when I first purchased it (my hands are huge). Since then I have gotten a 40D and I admit it is a big step higher, but that is not a criticism of the 400D.
This camera isn't perfect, but its shortcomings are all niggly things that are more irritants than major issues. I am very picky and here are some I can think of:
- The Self Timer mode is a joke compared to any decent Canon compact. There is no custom burst or custom countdown options for the self timer. The latter is not that important, but the former is. However, I use the AEB (Auto exposure bracketing) to make it do a burst, and this is better than nothing (and even better sometimes)
- No (Useable) AF Assist Beam. The usage of the on board flash to strobe the target for AF assist in lowlight will not please your subjects...get a Speedlite, it is well worth it.
- The Remote Control Sensor point is located in a stupid position. Someone's hand always is in the way when I want them to just hold the camera so I can trigger the shutter 
-My 400D tends to lag in Image Review mode especially with one of my Sandisk Extreme IIIs, maybe it is that card that is defective though...the other one seems much better.
- Self Cleaning Sensor (or more accurately, the vibration of the low pass filter) is next to useless. This is a glorified feature that sucks. It may be useful for some light dust, but you could have used a blower anyway...I am very disappointed with this feature
One other thing is that some elitists may dismiss you as a newbie if you lug this camera around...but who cares
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Nov 20, 2007
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Reviews
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Views
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Date of last review
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98
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133430
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Sep 5, 2010
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Recommended By
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Average Price
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86% of reviewers
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$763.37
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Build Quality Rating
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Price Rating
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Overall Rating
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8.11
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9.13
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8.8
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