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Archive 2002 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Kyle Yates
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought that one thing the USA had sorted out better than anywhere else in the World was Freedom of the Press.
I've been following the story about the 1DS with interest. It seems that in the US even after an article has been posted in public domain (whether it should have been in the first place is another matter) the powers that be can use considerable might to suppress it.
Over at DPREVIEW it looks like Phil was told to pull the clip.

http://www.1kyle.com/canon2.jpg

Maybe we're not so bad in Europe after all -- at least we got the story out

Seriously this has implications for all News photographers -- if we get a legit story out --even if the Corporate suits don't want it leaked we should be allowed to get on with it (libel etc notwithstanding)
I think Canon come out of this stinking like rotten fish.
Also doesn't say a lot for Americas Press Freedom Laws.

Sep 11, 2002 at 04:06 AM

Bob L
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Well, I'm glad that Fred respects freedom of speech and didn't delete any threads regarding the new 1DS.
I'm shocked by what other site administrators have done regarding this issue.
–Bob

Sep 11, 2002 at 04:11 AM

rebel300
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Bob Lovallo wrote:
Well, I'm glad that Fred respects freedom of speech and didn't delete any threads regarding the new 1DS.
I'm shocked by what other site administrators have done regarding this issue.
–Bob

i agree, but there is one huge difference between fred and the rest of the sites...fred's great talent as a photographer separates him from the less talented *others*.

My opinion? Why would anyone fear Canon anyway?
Lm

Sep 11, 2002 at 11:21 AM

Doug Dolde
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Here's a good site for rumored 1Ds features:

http://www.digitalfocus.net/sections/views/1DsRumour/1DsRumour.htm

Sep 11, 2002 at 11:26 AM

Jan Brittenson
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Freedom of the press limits the ability of the government to control media.

Canon isn't the government. Neither are on-line publications or websites like this one. They can publish, or detract, anything they want. If they want to remove something as a courtesy to Canon they can do so. That's what freedom of media is about -- media making decisions on its own without government interference.

If you think there should be a place to publish things like this, go start your own publication. That, too is a guaranteed right, at least in the U.S. -- no registration or government permits required.

Sep 11, 2002 at 11:36 AM

Tony C
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

What Jan Said,

plus the reason Phil et al pulled the articles was not that they are afraid of Canon coming down on them with a big (legal) stick, but because they have an arrangement with Canon. They agree to publish when Canon says it is OK, and in return they get access to the information in advance so they can publish first, and they get access to hardware early so they can be the first to review it.

They are pefectly free to publish what they want, but choose to cooperate with Canon for obvious reasons.

Sep 11, 2002 at 11:59 AM

Scubastu
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

BTW, isn't Phil based out of England?

Sep 11, 2002 at 12:31 PM

Peter de Weerdt
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

I agree with Jan and Tony. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but protecting the business. Fred on this forum is less dependent from buzz news under embargo than Phil, who epxloits another business model. Let us enjoy that great freedom here, and take advantage of proofed scoops on DP review.

And yes indeed, DP review is based in the UK (also part of the great free world we honour today!).

Peter

Sep 11, 2002 at 01:36 PM

DavidP
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

The difference is that Fred doesn't have any NDA's with Canon on the new 1Ds. Phil obviously does. Even though he's stated he has "other reasons" for deleting the threads (or removing links to the info) in question, it's obvious why Phil's doing this.

Fred would do the same thing under similar circumstances, I'm quite sure.

Sep 11, 2002 at 02:01 PM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Yup. I obviously started a bit of a sh*tfight over at DPreview. See here:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3364793

and

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3366234

Sep 11, 2002 at 08:09 PM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Jan Brittenson wrote:
Canon isn't the government. Neither are on-line publications or websites like this one. They can publish, or detract, anything they want. If they want to remove something as a courtesy to Canon they can do so. That's what freedom of media is about -- media making decisions on its own without government interference.

Jan,

I agree with you as far as Phil's editorial content is concerned. The problem is, Phil started deleting posts and whole threads from the discussion forums on DPreview, and that was WRONG.

Sep 11, 2002 at 08:11 PM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Tony C wrote:
They are pefectly free to publish what they want, but choose to cooperate with Canon for obvious reasons.

See my reply to Jan.

Sep 11, 2002 at 08:12 PM

Ray Amos
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

What is NDA?

Sep 11, 2002 at 08:43 PM

geir
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

rudiphoto wrote:
Jan,

I agree with you as far as Phil's editorial content is concerned. The problem is, Phil started deleting posts and whole threads from the discussion forums on DPreview, and that was WRONG.

WRONG in your eyes, yes.

Remember that you are using a resource provided by someone for FREE. What makes you think you have any rights whatsoever ?

This has nothing to do with freedom of the press or freedom of the media, as far as I can see.

I don't see the big issue here.

Phil provides service (same does Fred) and they are both free to do whatever they please with said service. They can delete posts, they can ban users/machines. They can probably ban all users from a country/region if they feel they want to do so.

It is our choice where we want to discuss/contribute/share opionons, lessons and spend our online time.

But, I might be missing something here...

-Geir

Sep 11, 2002 at 08:47 PM

geir
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Non Disclosure Agreement.

People usually sign NDAs when they will receive information that is not for public consumption at this point. Phil Askey will get to see cameras way before the rest of us, but he has to sign a legal document saying that he will not let anyone else in on this.

Most of the time, you are not allowed to make comments in any form about any topic that is covered. Not even confirm the existence of some product, until some fixed point in time when the information is released.

Breaking the NDA usually means that at least you won't get to see anything before it is released to market, and possibly lawsuits, probably depending on the nature of the violation.

-Geir

Sep 11, 2002 at 08:49 PM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Ray Amos wrote:
What is NDA?

non-disclosure agreement

Sep 11, 2002 at 08:53 PM

mporter
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

Fact of life department:
To enjoy freedom of the press, you have to own the press. Web forums are owned by their creators and they have a right to make their own posting policies. The forum owner is free to delete any post that doesn't fit the content rules. Forum posters who dislike the policies can complain, and if their issues are not addressed, are free to go elsewhere. Or start their own forum.

This is healthy and means a variety of fourms arise, each with its own perspective and character. For example, in another Canon 1D forum, the Galbraith forum, zero discussion of unannounced products is allowed. <http://www.robgalbraith.com/forums/forum_rules.html> This gives it a certain focus that many enjoy. It's good that there's a difference. The differences give us freedom of choice.

I support freedom, and thereby the right of forum creators to shape their creation the way they want. And, of course, the right of others to critique their work.

Sep 12, 2002 at 05:40 AM

archer
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

well put mporter!

Sep 12, 2002 at 05:48 AM

rudiphoto
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

mporter wrote:
Fact of life department:
To enjoy freedom of the press, you have to own the press. Web forums are owned by their creators and they have a right to make their own posting policies.

I think that was the problem. There was NO policy that stated that your post could be removed to protect Canon's and Phil's commercial interests...

Anyway, it seems that Phil has realised that the decision was a mistake, and he stated that he will not be doing it again in the future. I applaud Phil for stating that publicly. It takes a big man to admit to a mistake in public!

Sep 12, 2002 at 05:49 AM

rebel300
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Freedom of the Press and New 1DS

rudiphoto wrote:
non-disclosure agreement

ghee...lol...i'm rofl...not at you or anyone here...this camera industry really rules photographers by the nose...in the golf industry getting the word out is considered golden...i think the same goes for any industry...but not the case for the camera manufacturers, they been controlling all the pissant pros for years.
and this phil thing is just another example of control by the camera companies...in golf, the pros get everything free and get paid to use it...pro photographers pay through the nose and then jump through hoops for the company.
lm

Sep 12, 2002 at 07:28 AM

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