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Archive 2004 · slaves

kush
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · slaves

I want to set up my 420EX as a hair light, mounted on a stand behind the subject. First question - will the below Wein slave work for this purpose, and anything I need to be aware of?

wein slave

Second, are there special modifiers you recommend attaching to the 420EX to make it perhaps a more focused light in this application?

thanks in advance
Kush

Oct 17, 2004 at 06:59 AM

Greg
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · slaves

I don’t think this will work. The 420EX is an ETTL only flash and can’t be used manually.

GR

Oct 17, 2004 at 11:23 AM

Mr Joe
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · slaves

If you're going to use a flash as a hair light in conjunction with studio lights, you'll need a flash that works in manual mode (the 420ex does not). You can use a 550ex, or get something like a Vivitar 285HV. You can make a snoot for your flash out of gaffer's tape or cinefoil.

Oct 18, 2004 at 01:18 PM

kush
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · slaves

Thanks Greg, Joe
Kind of silly that you can't shut off that ETTL nonsense... Would think that its easy enough to have a "black magic" on/off switch?
Kush

Oct 18, 2004 at 06:20 PM

JamesGreen
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · slaves

Hi Kush,

Unfortunately turning off the ETTL nonsense is only available on the 550EX (oh, and the 580EX)

The problems you get with these Wein devices is they can confuse the canon foot, so the flash dosen't recycle. This is reported a couple of times around the net, and one solution seems to be get a very basic PC->Shoe like this. You will find that the more basic (read: plastic

) the better, as adaptors like this one (that I own) will not trip the 420EX, as I think the extra metal shorts the 4 extra pins on the Canon foot.

My experience with this setup (I use the Wein Digital Peanut, not the HS btw) is that when the 420EX fires, and I have a manual flash on the PC cord, the 420EX always underexposes, and not by a little either.

From my experience with these gizmos, the most fuss-free way is the ST-E2, so long as you can get one at the right price.

Hope this helps,
J

Oct 19, 2004 at 01:18 AM

JamesGreen
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · slaves

Oh, the other part of your question: I modified a Pringles tube and an elastic band because it was much cheaper than the LumiQuest Snoot. ...but I love my Ultrasoft

Oct 19, 2004 at 01:24 AM

JamesGreen
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · slaves

OK, I have just done some more tests - seems the 420 underexposing can be cured by moving it away from the manual flash, not quite sure why this is

Ok, I'll stop with this thread now

Oct 19, 2004 at 07:24 AM

kush
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · slaves

James -

This is great stuff.

So please tell me if I'm correct in my understanding ...

- you are able to convert the 420EX into a slave with a simple hotshoe - that would require a corded operation

- you may get unpredictable results such as underexposing that can be corrected by seemingly random placements in reference to the main lights

- pringles are not just for snacking and white balance anymore...

- so if I am corded to the 420EX, then my 2 AB lights would need to be fired optically

Is that correct?

Thanks in advance
Kush

Oct 19, 2004 at 07:29 PM

Ed te Pas
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · slaves

JamesGreen wrote:
OK, I have just done some more tests - seems the 420 underexposing can be cured by moving it away from the manual flash, not quite sure why this is

Maybe ETTL preflash fires the other flashes and measures more light. Thus lowers its output considerablely.

Oct 19, 2004 at 07:48 PM

Ed te Pas
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · slaves

kush wrote:
- so if I am corded to the 420EX, then my 2 AB lights would need to be fired optically

Is that correct?

Thanks in advance
Kush

No, because pre-flash (ETTL) fires your AB lights before opening the shutter.

Oct 19, 2004 at 07:50 PM

kush
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · slaves

Can I just tape the preflash "eyes"?

Oct 19, 2004 at 08:03 PM

Indvik Images
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · slaves

I just bought that exact Wein Slave today to fire my 550 EX for a hair light. When I first tested it right up to an Alien BEE in a softbox it worked great. When I moved it only 4 to 5 feet away and still in direct sight of the softbox it would not work. To make matters worse I cannot remove the Wein slave from the shoe..it is stuck on and I am afraid to break the flash. I am taking it back to Calumet tomorrow to see if they can remove it.

Guess I will be springing for a set of Pocket Wizards:)

Oct 19, 2004 at 10:52 PM

JamesGreen
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · slaves

Indvik: I had that with my Hama pc->shoe adaptor. I don't have the discipline to take things back so I just forced it. Luckily I didn't break mine, but it was close! I am not saying you should force yours! Just that I did it and lived.

The only think I don't like about Pocket Wizards is the deep pockets you need to get them! (I don't shoot for a living, this is still a hobby for me)

Ed: I reckon you are right about the measurement being thrown by the other flash, but I don't have much evidence to support this, other than after moving them maybe more than 6 feet apart the problem seems to go away

Kush: I can use my 420EX with my Hama pc sync->hs converter, but *only* when connected to the camera pc sync on the camera. The 420EX will NOT fire with the Peanut connected to the PC Sync port on the Hama converter and the manual flash on the camera.

I forgot to mention above the main reason why I don't use this setup too often: The 420EX and my manual flash are very different tempratures. Much more than can be easily compensated for in the raw conversion.

As for taping up the preflash: If you were wired to the 420EX and were firing your bees from it, you would need to make sure you got the "Digital" Wein slaves for your bees. Peanuts come in Digital and non- versions. The Digital ones (like I have) will ignore the E-TTL preflash, and it actually works

Probabbly the most reliable part of my optical slave setup for the moment

Oct 20, 2004 at 01:54 AM

photocentric
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · slaves

I'm not sure but I have come to the conclusion that depending on what WEIN slave you use the sensitivity of the slave it self is different. I took my flash to the camera store and found that the slave your looking at fits tight on the hotshoe of the flash. The flash pins encounter to much resistance. That is why I purchased the adapter shown below. It slides right off with out a struggle.

Indvik Images' you will have to just pull it off. I had the same problem in the store.

Sorry that my experience is with the 550 so I can't really comment on the use of a 420 other than just check if the pins of the flash are making contact with a conductive surface that in turn is also touching the trigger pin (center pin). Once I was fooling around triggering the flash and the wire touched another pin and the flash did not fire. Sometimes that center contact on those adapters are wide and also touch the nearest pins.

Oct 20, 2004 at 11:28 PM

Indvik Images
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · slaves

I found this posted on DPPreview under lighting. It seems this is the explanation why my Wein Slave only triggers once. If I turn it off and on again it will work ONCE.

<
apparently this is a known problem with the relatively newer (ex) canon flashes.

" The problem you describe is due to the simple SCR circuit used in most optical slave triggers. The SCR is open-circuit until the master flash is sensed (e.g. by a silicon "solar" cell). The SCR then conducts, triggering the flash unit. In order to reset the SCR, the power across the SCR must be removed, a situation that does not occur in newer Canon Speedlites "

feivel

cross-posted in canon and lighting forums >>>

Oct 22, 2004 at 07:43 AM


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