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Archive 2011 · A small experiment

wayne seltzer
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · A small experiment

A1: Canon A2: Zeiss
B1: Zeiss B2: Canon
C1: Canon C2: Zeiss
D1: Zeiss D2: Canon
E1: Zeiss E2: Canon
F1: Canon F2: Zeiss
G1: Canon G2: Zeiss
H1: Zeiss H2: Canon

Feb 18, 2011 at 06:52 PM

Bifurcator
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · A small experiment

Fun test!

A1 - Canon
A2 - Zeiss (Vignetting, lack of CA, harsher bokeh)

B1 - Zeiss (superior microcontrast)
B2 - Canon

C1 - Canon
C2 - Zeiss (vignetting, superior micro contrast)

D1 - Canon
D2 - Zeiss (someone told me Zeiss produces sharper aperture stars - tho the micro contrast is better in D1)

E1 - Canon
E2 - Zeiss (Vignetting, better micro-contrast. and there's birds in E2 - birds are attracted to Zeiss!

)

I probably got them all backwards.

Feb 18, 2011 at 07:07 PM

Bifurcator
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · A small experiment

denoir wrote:
Well, since the second set isn't part of the overall test, I can tell you that the F:ZC, G:CZ, H:ZC combo that three people have guessed now is not correct.

What?

Then maybe all mine from above are opposite cuz that's what I get too. Using the same criteria as I wrote above I get F:ZC, G:CZ, H:ZC for these "extras".

So, except for D I'm reversing all mine!

Feb 18, 2011 at 07:16 PM

jdben622
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · A small experiment

Cool test. I'm a Zeiss newbie:

A1 – Canon
A2 – Zeiss

B1 – Zeiss
B2 – Canon

C1- Zeiss
C2 – Canon

I actually think most of the characteristics of the D1 appear more Zeiss-like, but I don’t recall the starlight patterns being so spread out with Zeiss blades, so against my better judgment I’ll have to go with
D1 – Canon
D2 – Zeiss

E1 – Canon
E2 - Zeiss

Feb 18, 2011 at 07:41 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · A small experiment

Here are my guesses:

A - 1C; 2Z on this one the sharpness on the branches in the snow on the right and the more neutral colours suggested the zeiss in number 2
B - 1Z; 2C on this one the better contrast in number 1 suggested the zeiss
C - 1C; 2Z on this one it was the colours that to me suggested the zeiss in number 2
D - 1C; 2Z this one was a gimme; the star points in the streetlights indicate a 9 blade aperture (i.e., the zeiss) in number 2 and an 8 blade aperture (i.e., many canons) in number 1
E - 1C; 2Z on this one the better contrast and colours suggest that number 2 is the zeiss
the macros I judged on the bokeh and went with what I perceived to be a smoother bokeh for the zeiss as it is one stop down so
F - 1Z; 2C
G - 1C; 2Z
H - 1C; 2Z

Feb 18, 2011 at 07:47 PM

aleksanderpolo
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · A small experiment

My guess:

A-E:
CZ ZC CZ ZC ZC

F-H:
CZ ZC CZ

Feb 19, 2011 at 01:50 AM

Bobu
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · A small experiment

A1: Canon
A2: Zeiss
B1: Zeiss
B2: Canon
I have absolutely no idea about C, if I had to guess I would say:
C1: Zeiss
C2: Canon
D1: Zeiss
D2: Canon
E1: Zeiss
E2: Canon

Feb 19, 2011 at 02:59 AM

akul
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · A small experiment

This is fun, tough and sort of nerve racking

I am trying not to get distracted by other comments, so I am taking the test first and then enjoy other people's response. Hope you have not posted answers yet. My eyes are irritated a bit, hope I saw what I saw.

A1: C A2: Z
B1: C B2: Z
C1: C C2: Z
D1: Z D2:C
E1: Z E2: C

Akul

Feb 19, 2011 at 03:15 AM

akul
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · A small experiment

Frak there are more test ? Okay, hopefully I am not making my score worse, ah, right this is not part of the test. Ooo my eyes hurts.

F1: C F2:Z
G1: C G2:Z
H1: Z H2:C

B was hard with the strong distortion difference? Or just the size difference, whatever it was, I got fixated on it. Anyway, as I know nothing about canon, I picked ones I liked as Zeiss. If I am wrong on all, may be I shall consider switching to canon

Akul

Feb 19, 2011 at 03:29 AM

kop.cppua
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · A small experiment

My guess:

Zeiss:
1) A2
2) B1
3) C2
4) D1
5) E1

CP

Feb 19, 2011 at 03:49 AM

jan_haidn
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · A small experiment

aleksanderpolo wrote:
My guess:

A-E:
CZ ZC CZ ZC ZC

F-H:
CZ ZC CZ
This is my guess too.

Feb 19, 2011 at 04:01 AM

denoir
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · A small experiment

Ok, great, thanks guys. The defined number of responses > 20 has now been reached so here is the solution.

A = CZ
(A1 = Canon 50/1.4 @ f/2, A2 = Zeiss 50/2 MP @ f/2)

B = ZC
(B1 = Zeiss 35/2 Distagon @ f/5.6, B2 = Canon 16-35/2.8 II @ 35mm, f/5.6)

C = CZ
(C1 = Canon 16-35/2.8 II @ 21mm, f/4, C2 = Zeiss 21/2.8 Distagon @ f/4)

D = ZC
(D1 = Zeiss 100/2 MP @ f/5.6, D2 = Canon 100/2.8 Macro @ f/5.6)

E = ZC
(E1 = Zeiss 85/1.4 Planar @ f/5.6, Canon 85/1.8 @ f/5.6)

The 'extra credit' optional set 2:
(All shots Zeiss 100 MP & Canon 100 Macro, all at f/2.8)

A = Cz
B = ZC
C = CZ

A summary of the results:

http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/czcomp/results.jpg

Most of the above is pretty self-explanatory, except perhaps for balance. Balance is a sum of the scores but with a miss being valued as -1. So a random result would yeild a balance of 0 while inverted results (thinking all Canons are Zeiss for instance) would give -1 and getting all right would give 1.

In graph form:
http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/czcomp/results-3.jpg

So the final result for Set 1 is 88% correct identifications. Pair B was apparently the most easy to classify (92% correct) while pair E (83% correct) was the most difficult. The results for the optional set 2 basically show that the guesses were random.

=====

OK, a quick walkthrough on how to identify A-E. The images are just crops of the same images that were posted.

A)
Global contrast and local contrast is much higher with the Zeiss. Look at the tracks in the snow for instance.
http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/czcomp/A-cz.jpg

B) Zeiss = Higher local contrast:
http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/czcomp/B-ZC.jpg

C) Zeiss 21, first we have the tell-tale vignetting. At any aperture the 21 will have more vignetting than any other 21 mm lens:
http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/czcomp/C-CZ1.jpg

Then we have the local contrast:
http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/czcomp/C-CZ2.jpg

D) Local contrast:
http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/czcomp/D-ZC.jpg

E) Local contrast and color saturation:
http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/czcomp/E-ZC.jpg

Edited on Feb 19, 2011 at 11:27 AM · View previous versions

Feb 19, 2011 at 04:20 AM

kop.cppua
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · A small experiment

Thanks, Luka.

That was fun.

CP

denoir wrote:
Ok, great, thanks guys. The defined number of responses > 20 has now been reached so here is the solution.

Feb 19, 2011 at 04:32 AM

dcjs
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · A small experiment

Actually, the second set was a lot easier to tell apart with the given information. Since the Zeiss is stopped down to f/2.8 and the Canon is wide open, the latter has visibly more vignetting every time when flipping back and forth through the images in seperate tabs. I felt that was "cheating" though and otherwise it isn't easy to tell for sure, so I didn't participate there.

Feb 19, 2011 at 04:42 AM

denoir
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · A small experiment

dcjs wrote:
Actually, the second set was a lot easier to tell apart with the given information. Since the Zeiss is stopped down to f/2.8 and the Canon is wide open, the latter has visibly more vignetting every time when flipping back and forth through the images in seperate tabs. I felt that was "cheating" though and otherwise it isn't easy to tell for sure, so I didn't participate there.

Yeah, I know. I had difficulty deciding if I should apply lens corrections in Lightroom to get rid of the vignetting on the Canon but decided against it in the end in order to keep the processing equal. As it turns out a couple of people chose wrong based on the vignetting - based on their experience with the 100 MP @ f/2 and forgetting that the vignetting is severely reduced by f/2.8.

Feb 19, 2011 at 05:17 AM

AhamB
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · A small experiment

Hah, I noticed now that I had guessed A correctly but I wrote it down on a small piece of paper and when I typed in the answers I switched it with the answer for C. I know... excuses, but I know that in reality I had only one wrong guess.

I was really on the fence about the last one of the 2nd series (H). I saw that H1 has more vignetting, but in the end I chose to label it Zeiss because I thought the warmer color balance was present in the other Zeiss shots as well.

Feb 19, 2011 at 05:45 AM

akul
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · A small experiment

Thanks Denoir,

Well, I guess I stick with zeiss. Changing body and lens all to Canon would have been too expensive

Feb 19, 2011 at 07:03 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · A small experiment

Thanks denier. I too recorded one wrong. I knew that on #1 was the zeiss based on the star points in the lights, but had opened it in the number 2 tab. Oh, well it is clear that as a group we did pretty well even if I didn't do quite so well.

Feb 19, 2011 at 08:18 AM

rsolti13
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · A small experiment

I hate it...open mouth insert foot

Feb 19, 2011 at 09:23 AM

Delatant
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · A small experiment

Amazing experiment - Stretched the brain! What it shows me is that photographers can detect a Zeiss photo over 80% of the time! That is really something when you stop to think about it.

Secondly, while I throughly enjoyed the task (thanks for spending the time to put it together), almost none of these pictures would I have taken with a Zeiss lens - for the most part they were fairly monochrome - the advantage of Zeiss is the color rendition - my Zeiss goes on when color starts to splash! Zeiss is color! While other lens may approach (or at times exceed) Zeiss optically, no other lens can produce the vibrance, rendition, or saturation - ie 3-D effect or "pop" that Zeiss does. Now reproduce this test, with lots of color and I think the percentage of correctness will zoom.

Did I say I really enjoyed the test?!!

Feb 19, 2011 at 09:34 AM

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