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which lens has the most 3D POP?

  
 
rsrsrs
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


hi
which lens has the most 3D POP?

i guess a Zeiss, but which one?
did anybody compare the 4 zeiss 50ies (2x C/Y, N, ZE)?

Gruss
reinhard




Feb 17, 2011 at 08:40 AM
Fred Miranda
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theacguy71
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Voigtlander 65 still has the "pop" for me,

Norfolk Botanical Garden by Vaughn Adams, on Flickr



Sep 21, 2019 at 04:59 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Leica M 10 amd 90 Summicron APO wide open

Voigtlander 50 1.2 Nokton




Leica M Monochrom and 35mm 1.4 Summilux FLE



Sep 21, 2019 at 05:22 PM
Rob70
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


I think right now this thread becomes more confusing. A while back I had started a similar thread (that ended equally confusing). Back then I asked about how to create images with this 3D illusion (not which lens to use), though.

It happened also then that very different definitions of 3D or 3D-Pop or verisimilitude were being discussed as being the same thing. They're not. Before discussing which lens does it or not, we should try and discern various kinds and then start to name image traits that help with the 3D impression. After that it should be quite easy to name lenses that do it best.

For me there are 3 different versions of 3D that need to be set apart:

1. Pop: The subject jumps out of strong blur. It seems to be in front of the unsharp area in the back, BUT the viewer can't feel the depth of the whole scene. The impression concentrates only on the subject being in front of the blur. Here the recipe is quite simple: Use a fast, sharp lens, get close, the larger the sensor, the easier.

2. 3D (illusion): This is the one I'm most interested in, because it's so difficult to create: To my understanding an example will likely show one subject, usually placed in the middle, that is set apart by some kind of transition, either sharpness to blur, contrast falloff, brightness, warm to cold color, etc.; most times it's about the blur. But unlike Pop, the blur doesn't make the background unrecognizable, to the contrary it's still recognizable quite well, only a little blurry. Often the images show some degree of vignette, which in my opinion helps quite a bit.
Even though I've identified many traits that the images that work for me have in common, it still is very difficult to create one. It only works once in a while.
I believe that this is the kind that most people refer to when they talk about 3D. The difficulty to create such images as a planned process is what leades to the reputation of this topic as being mythical or voodoo. It's also the reason why no one has provided a "test" for lenses that do it, because it is very likely that your testrun won't produce images with good 3D. I've tried several times and have failed.

Still some lens characteristics can be named, without being a guarantee:
A lens that can do sharpness falloff with subjects that are a few meters away would have to be relatively fast. Like stated before: it helps if it produces a vignette wide open. It would have to be sharp and contrasty with excellent micro contrast in the middle (where your subject is). Sharpness falloff towards the borders isn't a problem, to the contrary, it can help, which is why some lenses with field curvature have a special reputation in this area. A lens with smooth bokeh will help, because it's not distracting the attention that the subject needs to stand out (this may be one of the reasons, why it's difficult to create such an image: often there are too many distracting parts of the image that destroy the illusion.)

3. Verisimilitude: The third kind I find also very interesting, but to me it is much easier to grasp: It's about life-like rendition. The recipe for this seems to be easily named, too: Lenses with very good color reproduction, nicely balanced contrast and very good micro contrast can do it. Examples are sharp all over without being sharpened. Sharpness is very obvious, but not pronounced, like you can observe in philip_pj's images. It also works in black and white (or fake color), like the fascinating images of Audii-Dudii show.

Obviously it's a very interesting matter to many photographers, but not easily deciphered.



Sep 22, 2019 at 03:44 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


A couple of articles that I thought some might be interested in
https://photographylife.com/the-death-of-beautiful-rendition-and-3d-pop-on-modern-lenses

https://www.artphotoacademy.com/the-leica-look/



Sep 22, 2019 at 06:37 AM
zoomo
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Sauseschritt wrote:


Non sequitur ?

He has an outline because theres a light above him to the left and right. One gives him a white outline to the left, the other to the right.

He doesnt have an outline because theres a lack of shadow ...




And your point is ?




Sep 22, 2019 at 07:50 AM
Rob70
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


airfrogusmc wrote:
A couple of articles that I thought some might be interested in
https://photographylife.com/the-death-of-beautiful-rendition-and-3d-pop-on-modern-lenses


The author himself writes: P.S. I hope our readers realize that this article is a satirical piece, aimed at poking fun at those individuals and websites that post nonsense information about lenses and their “unique” qualities. In an upcoming article, we will reveal some facts and hopefully put some of the above arguments to rest. If you had fun reading this article and you can relate to some of the terminology and claims used in the article, please share your thoughts below

- which means he basically makes fun of people who believe that a low number of lens elements is a key feature to 3D rendition, Yannick Khong being the prime example that I know of.

airfrogusmc wrote:
https://www.artphotoacademy.com/the-leica-look/


I do believe that Leica like Zeiss lenses are particularly capable of rendering 3D, but again it's got nothing to do with the number of lens elements. It's the philisophy of the two companies to aim at high end optical products (that you have to pay for too). Also with leaving AF out of the equation they can focus much more on the optics themselves, thus producing some of the very best lenses.

In this sense Leica and Zeiss and in my opinion also Voigtlander are more consistent than others in producing lenses that are capable of exceptional micro contrast, color reproduction and smooth bokeh, that among others are key components that make the 3D illusion work.

Still there are plenty of other lenses out there, that will also produce stunning results.




Sep 22, 2019 at 09:15 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Rob,

I just thought it would be interesting to post two sides of the coin for the sake of conversation. I know what I believe.

I prefer and own Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses.



Sep 22, 2019 at 09:46 AM
bwcolor
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


If 3D pop is your thing, then jump at the chance to view medium format slide film projected, or simply use a light table and a good loupe. Even 35mm projected can be quite stunning.


Sep 26, 2019 at 01:07 PM
LBJ2
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Hmmm is there any indication that MF digital would potentially display more 3D Pop than FF. Or always due to the lens regardless?


Sep 26, 2019 at 01:10 PM
 


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Rob70
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


The larger the sensor the better the blur potential at larger distances. So yes, MF or even LF will make it easier. A lens with the same characteristics as described above (somewhere) will help more.

Maybe you should check these out to know (definitely no high microcontrast, high quality lenses used). The machine gun image in particular, but also some others are quite stunning in my opinion.



Sep 26, 2019 at 01:36 PM
beardedspoooon
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


I think the EBC Fujinon 90/3.5 has it.

Some 3D effect coming from the Nikkor 5cm/1.4, mostly due to composition than anything else.





Fuji GW690II, Portra 400







Nikon S2, Nikkor S.C. 5cm 1.4, Fomapan 100




Sep 26, 2019 at 02:08 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Could greater sensor resolutions be damaging the image depth (3D) of some of our most effective and charismatic lenses? An FM member recently made the surprising statement that his CY 35-70 (a textbook 3D lens) did less well on a higher res camera. But I checked my catalogue and I believe he is right. I have used that lens for ten years on several (very different) 24mp Sonys: a900, a99, a7II, as well as a long term a7r and an a7rII. Almost all the best 3D images I've shot come from the 24mp cameras.

The high res cameras work lenses harder, baking in defects at capture time. And even in well-behaved lenses, they will accentuate center IQ far more than outer frames, as well as exacerbating mid-field curvature. Even great 3D lenses like the Zeiss 100MP loses 15% centre to corner, most others much more, esp wide angles. Downsizing retains these unpleasant resolution-induced artefacts in your output files.

It's early speculation here, the cause that may explain the effect. But if your output needs can be handled with moderate res cameras, they may give better results for f8 deep landscape work. All-of-image viewers will see more evenly depicted photographs, centre to corners - which can only help 3D.



Sep 28, 2019 at 04:01 AM
Rob70
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Philip,

you may have a point there. I remember, when switching from the Canon 5D ("Queen Mum") to the 5DII, that while liking the much higher resolution, the images from the 5D had more spark somehow. Back then I wasn't thinking about 3D, but still, I knew that something was lost in the resolution.



Sep 28, 2019 at 06:11 AM
RemcoR
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


Contax 35-70/3.4

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/39356681514/in/dateposted-friend/

RemcoR



Sep 29, 2019 at 03:35 PM
Coltrayne
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


That new Sigma 35mm 1.2 isn't too shabby in the pop department


Sep 29, 2019 at 04:28 PM
RemcoR
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


C/Y 35-70
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/116038440743293610309/album/AF1QipPk6J_ihHQGppKfAqJigPvw21zEh18YMfWoOGu-/AF1QipNQ3D0RjxPrAWohOHmsYSv5nUCbNcM8S3c1WPPe



Feb 28, 2020 at 10:31 AM
ShootPDX
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


I’d say the Zeiss 55 1.8 has quite a bit of pop:









Feb 28, 2020 at 10:54 AM
scrappydog
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


theacguy71 wrote:
Voigtlander 65 still has the "pop" for me,

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48771914537_6ba607001f_h.jpgNorfolk Botanical Garden by Vaughn Adams, on Flickr


Me too. The difference between it and many of the "pop" shots on this board is that the Voigtlander has pop when everything in the shot is in focus. It really accentuates 3D space, which is one of the reasons I won't sell it.



Feb 28, 2020 at 11:00 AM
gunmetal
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · which lens has the most 3D POP?


I'm still a fan of my Loxia 50 copy. I would be all over the CV 50, but I'm such a fan of the rendering of the L50. Not sure if it's "pop", "3d" or what. I just like it.





  ILCE-7RM3    E 50mm F2 lens    50mm    f/2.8    1/640s    50 ISO    0.0 EV  




Feb 28, 2020 at 12:33 PM
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