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Archive 2010 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

Bobu
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

Today I received my NEX2M adapter (Voigtländer) and did a quick test comparing the ZM18 lens with Sony 16mm lens on the NEX and also the ZM18 on the NEX with the same lens on the M8.
All images were shot with self timer on a very stable tripod with identical PP (same WB values, same sharpening, everything else on LR default values). Both lenses were focused on the NEX using MF and 14x zoom on the center of the image. M8 was focused on the same spot using the rangefinder.

Here are the images and some 100% crops from the center and the edges:

NEX+E16, f/2.8:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5089/5271638791_d970c250a9_o.jpg

NEX+E16, f/4.0:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5246/5271640171_8c359faee5_o.jpg

NEX+ZM18, f/4.0:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5203/5271635695_2e441bc173_o.jpg

M8+ZM18, f/4.0:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5282/5271642737_bc7b8ec550_o.jpg

NEX+E16, f/8.0:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5285/5271641515_2acb196bec_o.jpg

NEX+ZM18, f/8.0:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5249/5271637345_84d492b141_o.jpg

M8+ZM18, f/8.0:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5124/5272254014_50538be97a_o.jpg

NEX+E16, f/2.8, 100% center crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5086/5271650479_ea8ceb1aee_o.jpg

NEX+E16, f/4.0, 100% center crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5048/5272262760_c8d97dedc3_o.jpg

NEX+ZM18, f/4.0, 100% center crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5272256324_0c5f71d731_o.jpg

M8+ZM18, f/4.0, 100% center crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5282/5271655541_06df58f08f_o.jpg

NEX+E16, f/8.0, 100% center crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5126/5271654255_f98ec5a73f_o.jpg

NEX+ZM18, f/8.0, 100% center crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5046/5271648789_19eced8c5d_o.jpg

M8+ZM18, f/8.0, 100% center crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5272266954_c6f406b17c_o.jpg

NEX+E16, f/2.8, 100% edge crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5272272054_d12f2b2fa3_o.jpg

NEX+E16, f/4.0, 100% edge crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5241/5271663539_a1ef52922c_o.jpg

NEX+ZM18, f/4.0, 100% edge crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5043/5272268608_99bc540c21_o.jpg

M8+ZM18, f/4.0, 100% edge crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5283/5272276534_16aca34689_o.jpg

NEX+E16, f/8.0, 100% edge crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/5272275428_6dedbea70c_o.jpg

NEX+ZM18, f/8.0, 100% edge crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5272270424_a7fd802c03_o.jpg

M8+ZM18, f/8.0, 100% edge crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/5272277516_5f301e9537_o.jpg

My first conclusions are: the Sony 16mm lens is really bad, at least wide open, and the NEX seems to be a good camera.

Boris

Dec 18, 2010 at 04:31 PM

sebboh
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

corners on a the 16mm are always a little weird. i think my copy does a little better than your in the center though. in any event the zm looks like it has much better local contrast (it is a zeiss) and much better corners.

what's up with lack of green saturation from the m8? which has color closer to real life, the NEX or leica?

Dec 18, 2010 at 06:19 PM

denoir
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

Very interesting Boris. I would agree with your first conclusions. I am however also curious about why the M8 images are so desaturated.

Dec 18, 2010 at 06:38 PM

Edgars Kalnins
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

18ZM is a nice lens. I am surprised that NEX is no worse than M8. Will wait for more pics from outdoors!

Dec 18, 2010 at 06:57 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

The ZM on the NEX looks to be about one stop brighter at any given F-stop compared to the Sony 16. NEX color is over the top while M8 color looks very anemic.

Dec 18, 2010 at 06:57 PM

sebboh
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

Tariq Gibran wrote:
The ZM on the NEX looks to be about one stop brighter at any given F-stop compared to the Sony 16.

i noticed that too, but figured the camera just metered them differently. is the shutter speed the same?

Dec 18, 2010 at 07:12 PM

rsolti13
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

wow...very interesting. The NEX sure does hold its own and looks almost...if not more sharp than the M8. The NEX have an AA filter?

Dec 18, 2010 at 08:04 PM

thrice
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

rsolti13 wrote:
wow...very interesting. The NEX sure does hold its own and looks almost...if not more sharp than the M8. The NEX have an AA filter?

Yes it does.

Dec 18, 2010 at 08:21 PM

ken.vs.ryu
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

sebboh wrote:
i noticed that too, but figured the camera just metered them differently. is the shutter speed the same?

at f/8.0

E16 = 1.6 secs
ZM18 = 2.5 secs

Dec 18, 2010 at 09:30 PM

philber
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

Thanks very much for this test, Boris. Your findings mirror/confirm mine.

Dec 18, 2010 at 10:47 PM

Bobu
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

You should not compare the colors in the above images because I used the same WB setting for the NEX and the M8 in LR, which was probably not a good idea. Also the above images are in AdobeRGB color space.
If you want to judge the color, here are some more images in sRGB and with individual WB (on the white wall), brightness and satuaration correction. By the way the M8 images needed +20 saturation to get a similar saturation as the NEX images. Even with all theses corrections still the color of the NEX images look better and more true.

Boris

NEX, E16, f/8.0:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5245/5272898467_c1e38c6c66_o.jpg

NEX, ZM18, f/8.0:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5281/5272897599_39760d2fa1_o.jpg

M8, ZM18, f/8.0:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5290/5272899573_4740710944_o.jpg

Dec 19, 2010 at 03:32 AM

Bobu
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

rsolti13 wrote:
wow...very interesting. The NEX sure does hold its own and looks almost...if not more sharp than the M8. The NEX have an AA filter?

The NEX has an AA filter, but it seems, that this is a very weak filter. In these christmas tree images you even find more moire in the NEX images than in the M8 images. Here is an example:

NEX, ZM18, F/5.6, 100% crop:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5089/5272921999_d74c9e97f8_o.jpg

Dec 19, 2010 at 03:39 AM

Edgars Kalnins
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

Nevertheless, pictures with 18ZM on M8 looked better than the same lens on NEX in the recent shooting trip you had with Philber. Pat of it is no doubt processing. Would it be that at infinity M8 beat Nex?

Dec 19, 2010 at 04:59 AM

Bobu
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

I did another test today, this time outdoors mainly looking for color casts in the corners and edges using different filters.

NEX+E16, f/8.0, no filter:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5168/5273922306_8b79d71aeb_o.jpg

NEX+ZM18, f/8.0, B+W clear filter:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5086/5273925156_fcd76f1f0f_o.jpg

NEX+ZM18, f/8.0, B+W IR cut filter:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5123/5273927776_f6ded109a9_o.jpg

NEX+ZM18, f/8.0, Zeiss CSC filter (combined IR cut and color correction filter):
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5209/5273322017_dd0e47cd73_o.jpg

M8+ZM18, f/8.0, B+W clear filter:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5170/5273932762_a6800fb629_o.jpg

M8+ZM18, f/8.0, B+W IR cut filter:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5273326657_750e8c911e_o.jpg

M8+ZM18, f/8.0, Zeiss CSC filter (combined IR cut and color correction filter):
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5050/5273937652_bbd285f34f_o.jpg

Only slight color cast on the NEX, significantly more on the M8, especially with the IR cut filter. Just keep in mind that this is probably a worst case situation for color cast (big area of white snow and overcast sky). Sadly the Zeiss CSC filter reduces the problem but doesn't solve it.

And some 100% crops:

NEX+E16, f/8.0, no filter:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5089/5273330893_b470e31fb3_o.jpg

There are some strange artifacts in this image looking like a staircase. It seems that the NEX is doing something weird with the RAW-images when you use a Sony lens. Or this is could be a problem with the LR raw-converter, but I don't think so.

NEX+ZM18, f/8.0, B+W clear filter:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5243/5273332929_274b80b03d_o.jpg

No artifacts and much sharper even at f/8.0.

M8+ZM18, f/8.0, B+W clear filter:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5168/5273942882_faafea45c7_o.jpg

Dec 19, 2010 at 07:58 AM

ocean2059
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

That's very nice set of comparison. You may need to code your Zeiss 18/4ZM for Leica M8 in order to get ride of color shifting. IR cut filter along won't do it for this lens. The NEX sensor is very capable to produce good images.

Cheers,

Dec 19, 2010 at 08:33 AM

AhamB
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

Those M8 images of the christmas tree almost look black&white. Did you embed the color profile in the jpeg's?

Dec 19, 2010 at 09:00 AM

Bobu
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

AhamB wrote:
Those M8 images of the christmas tree almost look black&white. Did you embed the color profile in the jpeg's?

I used LR export to generate the JPEGs, so there should be an embeded color profile, but I'm not sure.

Since the second and third set of images are posted in sRGB color space it should make not difference.

Boris

Dec 19, 2010 at 09:04 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

Wow, NEX shows less color issues then M8 natively. What does this say about the 'special' offset micro-lenses of the M8 sensor? I was surprised to see this result and very impressed with how well the ZM 18 performs on the NEX. Thanks for doing these tests. The outdoor tests with snow are very enlightening.

Regarding ACR/Lightroom and NEX - it is tuned currently for sharpness and detail at the expense of occasional aliasing. I ran into this exact issue when I tested the CV 15 regarding ACR and artifacts. Using a different converter fixed the issue and there is also a way to use CornerFix to fix just this artifact issue with dng's and ACR. The NEX has a very light AA filter as you stated and extremely high per pixel detail.

Dec 19, 2010 at 10:21 AM

ken.vs.ryu
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

Thanks for posting these Boris.

Dec 19, 2010 at 10:50 AM

philber
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · NEX + ZM18 & E16 vs. M8

Thanks yet again, Boris!

Dec 19, 2010 at 02:09 PM

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