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Archive 2010 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)
  
 
Bobu
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


kosmoskatten wrote:
Bobu; with the #8 image, the 18mm/M8 shot there seems to be moiré present in the midsection, in the forest by the schloss, facing the left lake.

I agree with Tariq, I see some artefactsy things happening in the tree crowns in the M8 shot, maybe a hint of moiré as well? Both samples (5DII and M8) are excellent.

All in all, superb shots, nicely framed and well executed. Your photos always give me much needed inspiration.

Also, I am stunned by the resolution and crisp of the 50MP and especially the 100MP. Whoa!

Henrik

Yes, there are sometimes strange color artifacts in the M8 images. Look for example at this 100% crop of image #8 . Is this really moire? I'm not sure. What do the experts here think?

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5130/5261180084_c7bcf1d948_o.jpg
Dec 14, 2010 at 11:22 AM
rsolti13
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Excellent work both of you! Interesting to see the difference in the 5DII and the M8. I think the M8 handled the color much better (see castle and the lights around it) but the ZM 18 does have something going on in that shot you posted above. I only really see that in your ZM 18 shots...did you notice it in any other lens? #2, #7, #12 and #15 are my favorites.

Phillipe...unfortunately the NEX shows it weakness when comparing to a 5DII and M8. But you can't beat the portability. I really like the 28 shots and the last 85 shots. The 85 is such a good landscape lens.
Dec 14, 2010 at 11:56 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Bobu wrote:
Yes, there are sometimes strange color artifacts in the M8 images. Look for example at this 100% crop of image #8 . Is this really moire? I'm not sure. What do the experts here think?

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5130/5261180084_c7bcf1d948_o.jpg



That's what I thought I was seeing - major color aliasing, the achilles' heel of the digital M's and the price sometimes paid for that great, crisp detail and lack of AA filter. You may get different results using a different raw converter.
Dec 14, 2010 at 12:30 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


rsolti13 wrote:
Excellent work both of you! Interesting to see the difference in the 5DII and the M8. I think the M8 handled the color much better (see castle and the lights around it) but the ZM 18 does have something going on in that shot you posted above. I only really see that in your ZM 18 shots...did you notice it in any other lens? #2, #7, #12 and #15 are my favorites.

Phillipe...unfortunately the NEX shows it weakness when comparing to a 5DII and M8. But you can't beat the portability. I really like the 28 shots and the last 85...Show more →


What weakness do you see when comparing the NEX to an M8? Color? I have not seen color/ WB issues with my NEX but that could be a lens compatibility issue which is likely correctable.
Dec 14, 2010 at 12:32 PM
akul
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Boris, Philber These are amazing, inspiring, and informative shots and great collaboration. Thanks so much for sharing your beautiful works in such a generousity.

Akul
Dec 14, 2010 at 12:42 PM
Bifurcator
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Bobu wrote:
If you want to compare the 5DII with the M8, here are two nearly identical images (although with a different exposure and a slightly different PP).

#14 (5DII, 50MP):
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5041/5258621427_d6a4b32fa0_o.jpg

#15 (M8, 2.8/35ZM):
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5209/5258625001_e10657e0b4_o.jpg


Cool thread!

By putting these two in PS layers and switching back and forth the M8 seems to kick the 5DII's butt in just about every way. 100% crops would be helpful for those really interested in this stuff. I don't wanna spend more that $500 for a body so I'm excluded from that list tho. Still, it's pretty interesting to see how the different devices record.

Were the lenses the same or different? I also wonder what the different PP steps were.




Dec 14, 2010 at 12:50 PM
AhamB
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Bifurcator wrote:
Were the lenses the same or different? I also wonder what the different PP steps were.


Your selective reading continues to amaze me. It says above the shots that they were shot with 5D + ZE 50/2 and the M8 + ZM 35/2.8.
On top of that, it's impossible to use Leica M mount (or other rangefinder) lenses on a DSLR (some 135mm lenses excepted).

In the Leica shot it looks like many of the trees have (dim) colored christmas lights (chroma noise).
Dec 14, 2010 at 01:14 PM
sebboh
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


beautiful shots both of you!

phillipe - the nex shots look a little mushier to me than i would expect (and are smaller than the other images). how are you sharpening/downsizing?
Dec 14, 2010 at 01:22 PM
rsolti13
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Tariq Gibran wrote:
What weakness do you see when comparing the NEX to an M8? Color? I have not seen color/ WB issues with my NEX but that could be a lens compatibility issue which is likely correctable.

Some of the shots look nowhere near in sharpness to the Leica/Canon. The NEX seems to lack a little of the 'crispness' when comparing to the others cams....in this thread. I haven't seen side by side same object....this is the closest I have seen to a comparison and is all I can go by. Maybe it has to do with processing in this thread....I dunno
Dec 14, 2010 at 01:41 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


rsolti13 wrote:
Some of the shots look nowhere near in sharpness to the Leica/Canon. The NEX seems to lack a little of the 'crispness' when comparing to the others cams....in this thread. I haven't seen side by side same object....this is the closest I have seen to a comparison and is all I can go by. Maybe it has to do with processing in this thread....I dunno

Hmm. The NEX I have has probably the highest per pixel sharpness of any camera I have seen (excepting non AA cameras and the Foveon Sigmas), right up there with the original 5D in that respect. So, I don't think that conclusion would be right. Perhaps there were other variables with the shots taken in this thread using the NEX.
Dec 14, 2010 at 01:59 PM
Arka
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Wow, what a beautiful country. Now I really need to visit.

Arka C.


Dec 14, 2010 at 02:04 PM
kosmoskatten
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Philber: that does look crispier and more in line with what I expected from the NEX.



Dec 14, 2010 at 02:46 PM
rsolti13
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


kosmoskatten wrote:
Philber: that does look crispier and more in line with what I expected from the NEX.


+1 Now with that shot I would have no clue what camera was used . Great shot....and PP


Dec 14, 2010 at 02:53 PM
Bobu
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Here is another interesting comparison. Same situation, same light, same PP, different lenses and different cameras. Philippe, if you have shot the same image with the NEX it would be great if you could add it. If you want use the same PP settings, this is what I used in LR: Blackpoint = 0, Helligkeit = +50 (the slider directly above contrast), contrast +100, saturation +20, WB on the snow fields, sharpening 50/0.7/100/0, export sharpening high, size 1400 pixels length.

Boris

#16 (M8, 2.8/35ZM, f/8.0):
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5087/5261688120_97854f4561_o.jpg

#17 (5DII, 50MP, f/8.0):
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5122/5261692016_02827be980_o.jpg

#18 (5DII, 50ZE, f/8.0):
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5042/5261087949_5332b0ec6c_o.jpg
Dec 14, 2010 at 03:05 PM
denoir
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Very interesting comparison Boris and very good matching of the framing. I like the rendering of last shot (50 Planar) shot best.

The M8 shot is crisper but that has to do with the way you resize the image. A 10 Megapixel image resized to web size needs much less sharpening than a 21 megapixel image.


Dec 14, 2010 at 03:14 PM
Edgars Kalnins
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Great work and a very interesting project! 5D II seems to give the best images which does not surprise me. M8 is great apart from those strange color artifacts. As the only camera I own form these is NEX-3 I wanted to add that it is quite tricky to postprocess. After years of using canon software I find it difficult to get sony files right. In fact, could it be something to do with the way sony sensor works? I have been wondering about this for a long time. Looking back, I never saw quite the same sharpness in images with ZA lenses as those made with ZF and ZE. Maybe sony files respond differently to sharpening. On the other hand, the last ones by Philber are much better.
Dec 14, 2010 at 03:50 PM
carstenw
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Bobu wrote:
Yes, there are sometimes strange color artifacts in the M8 images. Look for example at this 100% crop of image #8 . Is this really moire? I'm not sure. What do the experts here think?

Yup, moire. The Bayer demoaicing is getting confused, and not averaging the surrounding pixels correctly. The Foveon would handle this much nicer.

I find both NEX and 5DII somewhat smudgy in the mid-tones, whereas the M8 is very crisp. If it is due to resizing, as Luka suggests, then a re-visit would be interesting. The M8 shots do show a lot of moire though, more than I have ever seen with mine. Interesting comparison. Even the last Neuschwanstein shot also has some, near the bottom right of the main building.
Dec 14, 2010 at 04:30 PM
Bobu
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


denoir wrote:
Very interesting comparison Boris and very good matching of the framing. I like the rendering of last shot (50 Planar) shot best.

The M8 shot is crisper but that has to do with the way you resize the image. A 10 Megapixel image resized to web size needs much less sharpening than a 21 megapixel image.

I think, I like the rendering of the 50MP best.

Boris
Dec 14, 2010 at 04:41 PM
Bobu
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Here is another example of some color artifacts / moire with the M8 (100% crop of image #16):
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5122/5261341579_5443b4e0da_o.jpg
Dec 14, 2010 at 04:45 PM
carstenw
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Neuschwanstein (5DII, M8, NEX with Zeiss)


Which version of Lightroom do you use? Do you have Capture One? Lightroom doesn't have a great reputation for developing M8/M9 images, so perhaps a comparison with another raw developer would be educational?
Dec 14, 2010 at 04:59 PM
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