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Archive 2010 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

adamdewilde
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p.11 #1 · p.11 #1 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

Csae wrote:
I thank you for the link and the very informative read.

I can see how one would call it slow, i believe i confused my t5 and t1s again as well as the multiplier between the two.

My mixup was that i believed the 1/6000 to be a t1, and that it would reach a t5 of 1/3000...

Sigh... i guess i'll have to get in line for an einstein now. I wouldn't sight if there wasn't such a long wait.

Then again, compared to howlong it would take me to save up for a quadra or ranger, i guess the wait is definitely...Show more →

I've had a Quadra, it was to expensive for the fact that it felt damn cheap in the hand.. I had an awful time with the added modifier adapter, made to use regular softboxes. It damn well couldn't even hold up a 3ft octa when I've tightened it beyond its limits. And it made the Quadra not so compact once you added that into the mix.. The other thing that really bothered me, was taking the battery off and putting it on.. The locking mechanism was horrid, and on more then one occasion I thought it was just going to break right off..
Overall really just cheaply made.

The AB+VBM is lighter and does the trick all the same + you can use the VBM on stand as a counter balance (well not really it's so light!) and you run a 2ft cord to your AB bingo you have a good combo! Cheaper then Quadra, bettter built, good quality and works exactly the same when you factor actual mass its a great combo..

The only reason I'm going to egg Paul on in my next post, is I HATE dealing with cords, I'm always losing them, tripping on them, having to fuss with taping them down so my models don't trip on them. Then when I pull the tape off the cords get sticky... Damn I really just hate cords.

Sep 15, 2010 at 02:57 PM

adamdewilde
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p.11 #2 · p.11 #2 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

Paul Buff wrote:
Sounds good in theory, but a bunch of bugs in practice. First, a Black and Decker battery will cost you close to double per watt hour than our battery. Second, you can't mount studio flash accessories (at least not ours) on an SB size head without adapting (strengthening) the stand mount and adding adapters . . . a kluge. Then you have to have a rather expensive cable to connect the head to the pack . . . unless you want to settle for low power and long flash durations or a heavy cable and high cost (read: Quadra).

Concept...Show more →

DO IT, I hate cords.. BTW make sure it runs off of the CC... It doesn't need an LCD though, Or maybe one that turns on only when you hit a button to change settings, then turns right off..

Sep 15, 2010 at 02:57 PM

adamdewilde
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p.11 #3 · p.11 #3 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

Two23 wrote:
I've been thinking it over, and I'm likely to buy three of the new lithium packs to try out. If they perform as I hope, I will then order two more. The big thing for me will come down to how well they cope with 30 below zero temps. My own experience is that lithiums are the best battery in those conditions.

Now, back to the mini-light discussion. A small 300ws light, with collapsible or fold up reflectors, adapter to take regular PCB light modifiers, and a plug in lithium battery such as the ones already available from Black &...Show more →

I've seen what you take photos of Kent, and the weather conditions you've shot in... I think you need to worry more about investing in good gloves. Can't take photos if you don't have fingers

Sep 15, 2010 at 03:00 PM

adamdewilde
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p.11 #4 · p.11 #4 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

dmward wrote:
Why would one want to use an inverter based battery power source to drive an LED light which is using a voltage converter to make the 120AC into some lower DC voltage?
Why not just find an LED light source that can be driven by a battery and then find the proper battery?
All the voltage conversions are eating power.

And, in anticipation of someone saying they want to use the same lights that they use with AC, it seems easiest to find out what DC voltage is being delivered from the AC/DC converter and finding a way to apply the DC battery...Show more →

100% agree with you... Half of my continuous lighting runs off of a DC voltage, and I am looking for a good Li battery option that'll allow me to run the lights directly, and I am going to ask Paul now about that.

Paul, if I bought a spare battery off of you + an extra charger, would I be able to run a "4 amps nominal at 12 VDC (48 watts)" and how would I connect it, I'm guessing I'd have a 4 pin XLR (1st pin is ground 4th is active) to whatever the jack is on the battery itself?? Possible?

The reason I'm asking, is I can't seem to find a good battery here at a decent price that's very light weight, and can last 1-2 hours.
All the battery quotes I've gotten here have been $400+ for what I'm looking for, and a V mount battery adapter would be $100 for the light, and then a Vbattery would be around $500+ not including charger!

So Paul's VBM seems like a good option for continuous lighting as well as powering my Einsteins. ESP at like prices like $90 (battery) $30 (charger)

Though again, agree about just doing a direct connect, so hopefully the VBM's battery alone can do just that.

Anyone know?

Sep 15, 2010 at 03:02 PM

supergimp
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p.11 #5 · p.11 #5 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

adamdewilde wrote:
The only reason I'm going to egg Paul on in my next post, is I HATE dealing with cords, I'm always losing them, tripping on them, having to fuss with taping them down so my models don't trip on them. Then when I pull the tape off the cords get sticky... Damn I really just hate cords.

Yea, Paul. What are you thinking!?!?!?!?! Why don't you have wireless inductive power to the monoblock? Huh?

I'm tired of your thoughtfully-engineered, excellent value, market-breaking designs. WE WANT MAGIC!!!

I think you guys have been slacking!

Sep 15, 2010 at 03:11 PM

adamdewilde
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p.11 #6 · p.11 #6 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

supergimp wrote:
Yea, Paul. What are you thinking!?!?!?!?! Why don't you have wireless inductive power to the monoblock? Huh?

I'm tired of your thoughtfully-engineered, excellent value, market-breaking designs. WE WANT MAGIC!!!

I think you guys have been slacking!

, I'm confused... I was being serious.

I did order two VBMs, because I have a few 2ft power cords that I can use with them. Since they clip onto lightstands, they're perfect for my needs. Until of course this wireless inductive power option you speak of comes out.

Sep 15, 2010 at 03:30 PM

supergimp
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p.11 #7 · p.11 #7 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

Sorry, yea, I know you were being serious. I was just kidding that there's always ONE MORE THING that somebody is after. I completely understand your cord aversion, but given the value and flexibility of the VML I find it hard to complain.

Nothing personal, just found the comment funny and giving props to PCB.

Sep 15, 2010 at 03:44 PM

Paul Buff
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p.11 #8 · p.11 #8 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

adamdewilde wrote:
100% agree with you... Half of my continuous lighting runs off of a DC voltage, and I am looking for a good Li battery option that'll allow me to run the lights directly, and I am going to ask Paul now about that.

Paul, if I bought a spare battery off of you + an extra charger, would I be able to run a "4 amps nominal at 12 VDC (48 watts)" and how would I connect it, I'm guessing I'd have a 4 pin XLR (1st pin is ground 4th is active) to whatever the jack is on the battery...Show more →
Adam,

The Mini battery is rated at 14.8V 8.8AH, which is 130 watthours. It can produce 20A continuous for about 20 minutes, so 4A for 2.2 hours is about right. Like all batteries, he initial voltage is higher than the end-of-charge voltage. For this chemistry, the fully charged voltage is 16.6V and the battery cuts of at 11V. The 14.8V rating is the median voltage. So if you can tolerate the voltage, the Mini battery alone should do exactly what you want. Would run completely cool at 4A, and fairly warm at 20A.

These aren't cheap batteries . . . they are the best money can buy. We just don't mark them up that much and don't go through a bunch of profit eating middlemen.

Sep 15, 2010 at 05:12 PM

dmward
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p.11 #9 · p.11 #9 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

I am not going to take one of my Einsteins apart, but it would be interesting to determine what would be required to put an AC/DC switch into its circuitry so that it could be run from a battery without the overhead of an inverter.

The Genesis 300B has such a switch. It has a separate, multi pin connector between the battery and the light.
When on battery power everything works but the modeling light is disabled.

The battery is rated as 12V NiMH and the pack has some electronics but I think its mostly a power meter and a charging circuit. The battery, which is interchangable, and the pack have the same connection and the same charger can be used to charge the battery in the pack or stand alone.

I know what PCB means about people asking him to redesign his products. We had a 12 page product change worksheet that had to be filled out to request an engineering change to products. Cost justificaiton, market acceptance, etc.

Anyway, just an observation that one company has taken what I think is a logical approach to powering a DC voltage device (strobe) from both an AC and a DC power source.

Sep 15, 2010 at 09:20 PM

Paul Buff
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p.11 #10 · p.11 #10 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

dmward wrote:
I am not going to take one of my Einsteins apart, but it would be interesting to determine what would be required to put an AC/DC switch into its circuitry so that it could be run from a battery without the overhead of an inverter.

The Genesis 300B has such a switch. It has a separate, multi pin connector between the battery and the light.
When on battery power everything works but the modeling light is disabled.

The battery is rated as 12V NiMH and the pack has some electronics but I think its mostly a power meter and a charging circuit. The...Show more →\

I believe there is a misunderstanding of what Genesis 300B is. It appears to be essentially the same light as the Photogenic Chinese StudioMax III, probably from the same manufacturer. You will find the "battery" is, indeed a speedcycler that contains a 12V SLA battery and capacitor charging circuit similar to that found in speed lights, but with somewhat more power.

What plugs into the light is not 12V . . . it is in the 300V range. Notice this from the StudioMax "battery" text:

:The Photogenic 12VDC Power Battery Pack works with the Studiomax 160 and 320 ACDC monolights, SP Excalibur C1600ACDC monolight, SPC920ACDC, 147ACDC and 100ACDC units.
This pack also works with most flashes that can use the Quantum Turbo, and Lumedyne Mini Cycler battery packs. Power cords for these strobes made by Quantum and Paramount may be ordered from B&H separately.
• A more economical alternative to the Quantum Turbo battery.
• Recycle time is about 4 seconds when used @ full power with the Studiomax 160AC/DC

I think you find the Genesis "battery" to be essentially the same thing. Notice particularly the 8 second cycle time for 320WS. And 3 seconds on 120VAC.

By comparison, a 320WS AB800 cycles on AC in 1 second, and 1.5 seconds from Vagabond Mini Lithium, with very little price difference

See links attached for more info.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404206-REG/Photogenic_906939_StudioMax_III_Constant_Color.html#47970

http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CF0506/

Sep 15, 2010 at 09:54 PM

Robb Mann
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p.11 #11 · p.11 #11 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

The design looks really sweet. I like the lightstand clamp, and the black case.

Sep 16, 2010 at 04:38 AM

palexy
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p.11 #12 · p.11 #12 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

Paul,
Rob Galbraith's site is referring to the upcoming availability of an optional high intensity, low wattage modeling lamp for the Einstein. Any chance it might be LED (long life, low power, low heat...expensive)??

BTW, love my Einstein and my first mini is on order. Looking forward to using both together!

Paul

Sep 16, 2010 at 08:58 AM

adamdewilde
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p.11 #13 · p.11 #13 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

supergimp wrote:
Sorry, yea, I know you were being serious. I was just kidding that there's always ONE MORE THING that somebody is after. I completely understand your cord aversion, but given the value and flexibility of the VML I find it hard to complain.

Nothing personal, just found the comment funny and giving props to PCB.

Not offended... I agree as well, which is why I'm plenty pleased about the VMB, a two foot cord is much better then a 20ft cord

But hey, doesn't hurt to ask.

Sep 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM

Paul Buff
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p.11 #14 · p.11 #14 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

palexy wrote:
Paul,
Rob Galbraith's site is referring to the upcoming availability of an optional high intensity, low wattage modeling lamp for the Einstein. Any chance it might be LED (long life, low power, low heat...expensive)??

BTW, love my Einstein and my first mini is on order. Looking forward to using both together!

Paul

It is nearly impossible to retrofit an LED lamp in Einstein. We are having samples made of a direct replacement quartz Halogen that consumes 40=50 actual watts but is run at higher than normal current . akin to a 50W 90V lamp operated at 120V. I believe Acute B does this also. Doing this raises the Lumen output close to 100% and increases the color temperature to about 3200°K, The more over voltage that is applied, the higher the efficiency of the lamp, but the shorter the lamp fife in hours. Were shooting for about a 90W lumen level and a 200-300 hour life. The cost isn't high - about $10. We use this approach in the ABR and, originally, in the WL Ultras.

Sep 16, 2010 at 12:09 PM

dmward
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p.11 #15 · p.11 #15 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

Paul,
You'll get no argument from me about what the Genesis battery pack may be.
The connector is completely different than the connector for the Quantum battery pack.
It may well be 300 plus volts to the light, although the specs say the output voltage is 12V DC.
The battery is marked as a NiMH 12 volt 3600 milli-amp hour device.
There is a High Voltage warning on the outside of the power pack which supports your suggestion that it is delivering high voltage to the light.

For me the interest is the DC/AC power selector switch and how that appears to remove the DC to AC to DC conversion necessary when using an inverter.
Perhaps the multiple conversions is less problematic.
I am enthusiastically waiting to get the 2 VMLs I ordered to go with my Einsteins and AB800s.
The light/VML package is substantially smaller than the Genesis 300B with battery.

Sep 16, 2010 at 12:22 PM

Paul Buff
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p.11 #16 · p.11 #16 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

dmward wrote:
Paul,
You'll get no argument from me about what the Genesis battery pack may be.
The connector is completely different than the connector for the Quantum battery pack.
It may well be 300 plus volts to the light, although the specs say the output voltage is 12V DC.
The battery is marked as a NiMH 12 volt 3600 milli-amp hour device.
There is a High Voltage warning on the outside of the power pack which supports your suggestion that it is delivering high voltage to the light.

For me the interest is the DC/AC power selector switch and how that appears to remove the DC to...Show more →

This is why it's important to completely specify what a product is and what it does. I know this series of lights pretty well as they we're offered to me for distribution several years back from the China source. If you compare the Photogenic and Genesis it's fairly obvious they are derivations of the same design and that the "battery input" is indeed a high voltage input with rather slow recycle rates compared to other studio lights.

Sep 16, 2010 at 01:27 PM

MNPNW
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p.11 #17 · p.11 #17 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

A big downside to StudioMax III and same unit branded differently is SLOW/LONG flash speed at high power. Have to reduce sync speed.

Sep 16, 2010 at 03:47 PM

MNPNW
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p.11 #18 · p.11 #18 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

I too thought StudioMax III (SP systems and other names) may be an alternative to Lumedyne, Vagabond, and other battery powered units, but then I discovered the long flash duration.

From Photogenic web site regarding StudioMax III.

For 160 WS unit, "Flash duration 1/175 second at full power; 1/7400 second at 1/32 power."

For 320 WS unit, "Flash Duration 1/120 second at full power; 1/4800 second at 1/32 power."

So in bright conditions when you need max power, you have to slow shutter speed from camera max sync.

Sep 16, 2010 at 09:34 PM

RustyBug
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p.11 #19 · p.11 #19 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

Exactly why I'm looking at AB400 & Einsteins with the VBM as THE SOLUTION ... excellent ability to retain short flash durations at BOTH lower and/or higher powers.

Sep 16, 2010 at 09:41 PM

CanadianEh
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p.11 #20 · p.11 #20 · Vagabond Mini Lithium

Question for Paul:

I know you must cringe when you hear design change suggestions, but I only mention this in hopes of making an exceptional product even more so.

The USB port on the Vagabond Mini outputs (I'm assuming) 5V 0.5A ?
The charger for many phones output 5V 1A. Some devices can only charge from 0.5A when turned off (such as the iPad), and even then charge slowly.

Would it be difficult to modify the Vagabond Mini to output 5V 1A? To charge an iPhone quickly in the field you would need to use the Apple USB Power Adapter (taking up one of the outlets) and not your built-in USB port.

Sep 17, 2010 at 12:34 AM

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