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Archive 2010 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Gizzo
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Great synopsis DJ. Thanks for taking the time.

I would love to try a D700 for hockey DJ. Do you know of anyone in the KW area that would rent it out for a day? I'm seriously considering upgrading from the D300 for hockey as the season is upon us!

Aug 15, 2010 at 09:03 AM

dj dunzie
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

ChiShutter wrote:
Be honest... this was just an elaborate way to show off your gear, right?

Well, it does make for nicer subject matter than me...

Aug 15, 2010 at 09:58 AM

dj dunzie
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Alan321 wrote:
The yellow and white areas in those images are blown out, showing no detail at all. If you exposed them correctly and so also made the dark lenses darker, what would be the impact on image noise? I'd expect to see a lot more from both cameras because more of the subject matter will be down in the noise.

"Expose to the right" is not always acceptable if the highlights need to be retained, and if everything is overexposed then the noise is largely masked out.

- Alan

I let the cameras matrix meter the shot and I think the "balance" it picked between some very dark shadow areas and mainly black subject meant some highlights got clipped you're right. It's still an even test though and the spot I picked for the 100% crop had shadows, darks, and some clipped highlights. I could have exposed it a little less to save those highlights, but I'm certain the results would have been the same in comparison. Thanks for the comments.

Aug 15, 2010 at 10:00 AM

dj dunzie
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

NightOwl Cat wrote:
Is that lower shelf really that bowed from the weight?

Yes, I use the second joystick control pad on the grip as well, and it would be a welcome addition to the pro bodies.

Thankfully immune to NAS at the moment and equally thankful that my D300s is doing what I need for now.

I figured someone would suspect that!

The shelving unit is actually curved though... all good.

Aug 15, 2010 at 10:01 AM

dj dunzie
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Gizzo wrote:
Great synopsis DJ. Thanks for taking the time.

I would love to try a D700 for hockey DJ. Do you know of anyone in the KW area that would rent it out for a day? I'm seriously considering upgrading from the D300 for hockey as the season is upon us!

Well, you would be better doing a little investigating on it, but I know that Vistek in Mississauga, and Headshots in Toronto both do. Headshots will rent through your local Henry's dealer so you could start there...

If we ever end up near the same arena sometime you could sure throw your lens and memory card on mine to give it a go...

Aug 15, 2010 at 10:03 AM

Chris Noyes
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Excellent synopsis DJ. Thank you for going through the effort to do this. Ever since the D300s and D3s have been out, I've wondered just how much of improvement the new sensors make and whether it would make a difference for my photography.

I recently sold off my D300 because I just didn't use it that much. The D700 got almost all of my attention because it outperformed the D300 at any ISO setting (I could always see noise in my blue skies at ISO 200 using the D300). I'm going to try to get through the next few months of sport shooting using one body (I like using 2 bodies for field sports) but I can foresee the day I pick up another body. At that point, the only camera I'd consider would be one that contains the D3s sensor or improved.

Aug 15, 2010 at 10:26 AM

Avi B
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

to DJ for this effort.

Aug 15, 2010 at 10:28 AM

allstarimaging
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Hi DJ,
Nice job on putting this together. While I was about to downsize my gear recently a mint D3s popped up on the buy/sell and I jumped on it. Very gald I did. The D3 was a groundbreaking camera. The D3s is a D3 on steroids on the high ISO shots. Really amazing camera and super clean files straight out of the D3s. Glad I didn't downsize because the D3s gives me the confidence to pretty mcuh capture any shot I need. Thanks again for posting.
Jack

Aug 15, 2010 at 11:01 AM

dj dunzie
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

It isn't a perfect test for sure. I don't think anyone short of a lab tech or someone with a LOT more time on their hands on me could really do a test that would satisfy anyone. Here's a case in point. I have always felt that the gap up to ISO3200 would be very difficult to determine. Maybe the lab software can do it, but most mortals would have difficulty using their eyes and pixel peeping.

Try this on for size... both these comparisons are at ISO12800, where most of us would guess the D3s really has a significant advantage. But in this crop from the original image, the gap is tough to distinguish:

http://djsphotography.smugmug.com/photos/970387875_s6zMq-O.jpg

How could you say you think the D3s is a stop or more better? Both look clean in an area with mostly dark but well exposed subject, and not a lot of color or brightness transition.

However when you select a different area to crop the differences jump out a lot more:

http://djsphotography.smugmug.com/photos/970401947_NMBQM-O.jpg

... so as I said difficult to do a test in my environment that will satisfy everyone, so I understand if people take some issue with how I've presented it and my beliefs on what the actual gap is. Again, both fantastic low light cameras and you have to really get into it to see where the D3s can better the others as my top crop here shows...

Aug 15, 2010 at 11:02 AM

PShizzy
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

nice comparison DJ. Also a nice cabinet of gear.

One thing I really loved about the MB-10 grip was that joystick. the D3 and D3s built in thumb controller is weird. The grip's joystick was great, just the right give for AF point movement.

But aside from that? the D3s has it all over the D3/D700

Aug 15, 2010 at 11:20 AM

luminosity
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

paulesko wrote:
I use it to change the focus point. You really don´t use it?

I only use the center point

Aug 15, 2010 at 11:26 AM

CGrindahl
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Thanks DJ. No doubt, for most of us the D700 does the job admirably and the improved low-light performance would be frosting on the cake. I appreciate many among us would benefit significantly from the improvement and have been willing/able to make the investment in the D3s. That said, were Nikon to produce a D700s with this improved sensor I'd be among the first in line to buy one. Even if it isn't critical to have, it sure would be nice to play in the dark...

And with regard to NAS, an acronym I didn't understand for a long time... I've gone from ZERO Nikon lenses to FOURTEEN lenses in a matter of months. I NOW understand...

Aug 15, 2010 at 12:00 PM

thedigitalbean
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Nice work. Now to those who want instant gratification, my D3s is up for sale in the buy & sell, so whip out the old credit card and you could be shooting with this bad boy by Tuesday

Aug 15, 2010 at 01:01 PM

Sambru
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Thank you DJ, that was very good of you to do the test. I am in the "The D700 is good for me" section, actually the D700 is more camera than I need.

Aug 16, 2010 at 06:58 PM

MaxBL
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Great comparison -- thanks!!

Aug 16, 2010 at 07:09 PM

PurplePix
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Thanks, Nice to see the comparison with images.
In a few more years, we will all stop talking about noise performance at hi-isos.
What will we talk about then?

Aug 16, 2010 at 08:04 PM

Jammy Straub
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

PurplePix wrote:
What will we talk about then?

Fountains, dogs, cats, and waterfalls?

Aug 16, 2010 at 08:13 PM

camerapapi
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

Unquestionably DJ that a photographer making a living with his cameras has to select the proper tools for his job. A wedding photographer, or the particular case of Will with his low light rodeos, that finds that those high ISO settings will make a difference in his job, needs to go for the D3S.
Showing results like yours makes other photographers, less experienced by the way, believe that a camera with such a performance is the tool to own when indeed low light photography is mostly reserved for professionals in need of that performance. Nobody needs a D3S for landscape work or general photography and that includes the majority of amateur photographers.
I remember, perhaps you do not, that a few years back I asked you for an opinion on the D2H, the camera you were using at the time. You were kind enough to send me a comprehensive email with a very enthusiastic report on your positive experience with the camera. I bought the D2H, it has become my favorite body and although its low light performance is not spectacular, typical of the first generation of Nikon cameras, it has served me well for the type of photography I do. It is obvious that a D3S was not the camera I needed then and it is not the camera that I need now.
Please, do not misunderstand me, the D3S is a formidable professional camera and those in need of it will be well served by your tests, that I found impressive. All I wanted to do with this post was to try to advise those with less experience that a D3S is not going to make a big difference in their photography. The D3 is a professional camera, as I already stated, designed with the low light professional shooter in mind.
If the occasional low light photographer needs reasonably performance under those circumstances, a D300S shall serve him or her well up to ISO 1600 and when necessary or if going slightly higher is a must, then a noise reduction software, like Neat Image, will complete the job.
I want to thank you for taking the time to show us such a revealing performance from the highly regarded D3S.

William Rodriguez
Miami, Florida.

Aug 17, 2010 at 10:23 PM

Rodolfo Paiz
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

paulesko wrote:
Why on earth nikon d3/d3s don´t have the joystick that you get on the mb-10 for vertical shots?? I use it all the time on my d300.... To be honest I was thinking on buying one d3s at some point this year for weddings, but I find that small joystick so usefull that I don´t know if I´m going to miss it that much.

No laughing here, I miss that second thumbpad!

I won't give up the D3s or D3x just to get that thumbpad back, but by God I think the pro bodies should get it too. Been saying it for a while now... it's insanely useful to select a different AF point so I can change compositions and still AF where I want to without focus/recompose at all. And my thumb is too short to reach the big thumbpad, which is under my nose anyway when shooting vertical.

Wah.

Aug 17, 2010 at 11:44 PM

Rodolfo Paiz
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · D3S vs D3/D700 High ISO

PurplePix wrote:
What will we talk about then?

Jammy Straub wrote:
Fountains, dogs, cats, and waterfalls?

Hey hey hey... and airplanes and cheetahs, OK?

Don't leave out my babies like that.

Aug 17, 2010 at 11:50 PM

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