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Archive 2010 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV

  
 
Russ Isabella
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


All posted shots with 1DIV and either 200/1.8L or 35/1.4L. I've got a few impressions to share, but they'll have to wait until after some sleep. Here are 9 shots, all at ISO 3200 except for the vault shot, which was ISO 6400. All posted shots are converted from RAW files that had been converted to .dng format. C&C welcome.

1.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/Converted._M7D9598.jpg

2.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/Converted._M7D8827.jpg

3.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/Converted._M7D9154.jpg

4.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/Converted._M7D9026.jpg

5.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/Converted._M7D0034.jpg

6.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/Converted._M7D9811.jpg

7.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/Converted._M7D9306.jpg

8.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/Converted._M7D9741.jpg

9.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/Converted._M7D0257.jpg



Feb 13, 2010 at 03:43 AM
Bob Cox
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Hi Russ,
I have to be honest here, As I looked at these images I had to go back and see if these were really yours. I know you have shot gymnastics many times and I have always been more then impressed with your work. Almost all of these looked very noisey and not very sharp to me. I looked at the exif and I see you moved up to the mark IV. (Not bashing the new canon offering so don't flame me) After looking at many of your previous gymnastics posts (which I thought were much better) I see you upped the iso and ss a bit. I'm a little confused as to why...I know you use some special processing techniques for posting on the web and now I am wondering if this group is processed using something new. I see in this post that you have some impressions to share and I am looking foward to reading them.



Feb 13, 2010 at 07:11 AM
davenfl
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Your work in the gym is always amongst the best. With all due respect it appears that all of these could have used ISO 6400, they appear underexposed, noisy, and grainy. This matches my tests with the 1D4 loaned to me by Canon, it is a wonderful camera in many respects but ISO wise not any major improvement over the 1D3.

Dave

Edited on Feb 13, 2010 at 08:28 AM · View previous versions



Feb 13, 2010 at 07:16 AM
Bob Cox
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Dave... That's not what I was thinking at all. In former gymnastics posts, Russ was shooting at around 1600 iso and 1000 ss and F1.8 . With the mark IV I would think he could go at least to F2/F2.2 and maybe up the ss a little or go to 2000-2500 iso and get better results. As far as the sharpness/focus.... Thats another issue to be reckoned with.


Feb 13, 2010 at 07:35 AM
ScottSchupbach
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Hi Russ,
Your Gymnastics work has always been top notch.Sounds like you have not had much time with the 1D IV, so I'm sure you will need more then one event to get it dialed.I'm looking forward to your impressions and thoughts on the 1D IV.

Scott



Feb 13, 2010 at 07:52 AM
John P Mulgrew
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


I saw these earlier and I just got done reading RG's article on the MKIV, oh nooooooooooooooooooooo here we go again? These are noisy and I'm sure it's not due to the way Russ shoots! MY MKIV will be here Monday, do I send it back............sigh.


Feb 13, 2010 at 08:23 AM
Russ Isabella
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Bob, Dave, Scott and John: Thanks for your feedback. In the post below I share my impressions and, I think, address the issues relevant to most of your comments.


Feb 13, 2010 at 11:01 AM
Russ Isabella
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Long-winded post......read at your own risk

1DIV Impressions

Preface
A few things to be aware of: First, this was my maiden voyage with the new body. I believe I had a good read on the custom function set-up and other settings, but I’ve no doubt there may be adjustments worth making. Second, I chose to depart from my typical approach to shooting gymnastics. Usually, I do everything I can to maintain an ISO of 1600 or lower. This time out, given the purported ISO prowess of the 1DIV, I chose to work mostly at ISO 3200. Third, for some reason (part situational, part not thinking it through well enough, which is rather remarkable since I haven’t thought about much else since receiving this camera), I shot most of the meet with a relatively wide-angle lens, the 35L. It’s a stunningly competent lens, but I do wonder what my results would have been had a relied a bit more on the 85/1.8. Fourth, because of the higher ISO, I was able to raise my shutter speed, but I also stopped down a bit more than I typically do. It’s not clear to me how much of an effect this might have on isolation of my subjects from their backgrounds. Fifth, I am working with Photoshop CS3, so I cannot process the RAW files out of camera with ACR. Thus, for the photos in my original post, I converted to .dng then converted in ACR. I have no way of knowing how that simple fact affects these images relative to my past gymnastics shots (and sorry but I’m not going back to convert previous shots to .dng so that I can make the comparisons that might help answer this question). Sixth, I shot in M mode. I can’t say I consistently nailed exposure, and when I was off, it was in the direction of underexposure. Of course this is a factor when considering noise. Seventh, with the exception of beam, where I used the ring of fire, everything was shot with a single focus point (usually center) selected. I think that covers the caveats…

Custom Function Settings for C.FnIII:
1-0
2-0
3-0
4-1
5-0
6-4
7-2
8-2
9-1
10-1
11-1
12-0
13-0
14-1
15-0
16-0
17-0
18-Disable
19-Disable

AF
The most pressing question in my mind is whether the AF system works. Every first-hand report I’d read prior to buying this camera was very positive where AF is concerned. Then, of course, Rob Galbraith posted his review and the shit hit the fan. Was I worried? A bit. Am I still? Not really. I was happy with AF performance. Not only did I think AF worked very well, but I’m confident it’ll get better as I continue to learn how to use this camera. Vault is by far my worst event when shooting gymnastics. The 1DIV was fast and relatively accurate and I feel I had more keepers than usual. Shooting bars I also was impressed by the responsiveness and accuracy of the AF system. I look forward to seeing how this might become even better with a longer focal length. Beam was a bit of a testing ground in that I chose to use the ring of fire. Looking at the photos, it’s clear I lost focus more often than I was able to realize while shooting. I’m not particularly surprised by this because the ring-of-fire approach not only adds risk to the process just because of how it functions, but the challenge to this shooter is heightened because it’s very difficult to see the center ring through the viewfinder (which matters because it’s still important to keep the center focus point on the subject) and it’s extremely difficult to know whether or not focus is on-target because there’s no perceptible “feedback” that I was aware of. Despite all of this, the AF worked (shots were in-focus and sharp) much, much more often than it didn’t, and there’s no way I can place any fault on the camera.

Shooting floor, I was impressed. With all of my planning for this shoot, I had decided to use the 70-200/2.8 for floor. I figured I would take advantage of a higher ISO setting and enjoy the convenience of a zoom rather than fumble around with two rigs and the relatively heavy 200/1.8. During pre-meet ‘practice,’ I wasn’t happy with what I was seeing from the 70-200 (which I’d stopped down a bit) because the backgrounds were more prominent than I wanted them to be, so I made a game-time decision to shoot with the 200/1.8. For me, shooting floor with this lens is like participating in aerial activities without a net. It’s physically challenging (Hammy’s daughters notwithstanding ) and the in-your-face perspective that often results poses a huge challenge where AF is concerned….at least that’s always been my experience. I felt the 1DIV handled it better than any other camera I’ve ever used to shoot floor. I still had plenty of OOF shots, but I definitely had a higher proportion of keepers, and I’m quite happy about that.

All told, for the first time using this camera, I was more than ‘pleased enough.’ I have no reason to think there are any problems inherent in the AF system, and as already mentioned, I’m confident things will get even better as I learn to fully utilize all of the various settings.

ISO
I must say I’m not particularly impressed with this camera’s high-ISO abilities. I also must say that in light of my having no choice but to rely on a different post-processing procedure, and finding this morning that my results in this regard are quite different using DPP, and seeing that an out-of-camera jpg looks better than my post-processed .dng file, I cannot comment on ISO with any authority. One thing I thought I noticed was that in shots where the athlete’s face was in shadow, resolution was compromised. This is something I will continue to explore given that it is not yet clear to me whether the ‘effect’ is a real one. Factors I must consider: because I relied on a wide-angle lens, I had to do a fair amount of cropping in some situations; different processing approaches seems to lead to different outcomes.

Below I am posting four already-posted photos, this time processed with DPP. In every case, to my eyes, the photo looks better than that converted from .dng. I’m also posting for one of these photos a straight-out-of-camera jpg that has only been resized for the web. To me, this seems to provide evidence for ISO performance being better than the converted .dng files would suggest.

1A.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/_M7D9598.jpg

2A.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/_M7D8827.jpg

2B. Out-of-camera jpg:
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/OOC8827.jpg

6A.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/_M7D9811.jpg

7A.
http://www.russisabellaphotography.com/Gymnastics 2010/_M7D9306.jpg




Feb 13, 2010 at 11:01 AM
DannWunderlich
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


im sorry - im not seeing the noise.


Feb 13, 2010 at 11:37 AM
NCAndy
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Russ, can I ask how you set the white balance for the meet? Do you use auto, set a kelvin temp or custom? Thanks. BTW, your 1D4 impressions really help as I've been debating buying one. I know there is always a learning curve with any new camera.


Feb 13, 2010 at 11:42 AM
Russ Isabella
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Dann: Well ya' know, I didn't have much of an impression of noise either, so it's interesting you said that. Even so, to my eye (particularly while editing), there is something 'cleaner' about the shots edited with DPP.

NCAndy: Over the years, I've arrived at Kelvin settings that usually work pretty well. WB is a real challenge in this arena, and I want to explore some other approaches with the 1DIV.



Feb 13, 2010 at 12:00 PM
BobnJake
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Russ, thanks for taking the time to offer your first impressions of the MKIV, I know many of us value your opinion, especially coming from someone who uses the camera, the way a lot of us do, or would like to do

Thanks again, Bob



Feb 13, 2010 at 01:07 PM
Tom D
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Russ, thanks for sharing another fine series, and also for your detailed first impressions of the new body. I gotta say that my immediate thought when reading the comments about others seeing noise was probably the same as Dann's-- "Huh?" Overall, while you can detect it on very close inspection in the darker areas, for ISO 3200, it's looking pretty acceptable, IMO. Funny how spoiled we've all gotten to be by the latest technology, huh? For instance, imagine having to focus manually, while shooting for your bread and butter-- wow.

And your thoughts about getting better results from DPP are in line with what I've often read about RAW conversion. By that I'm referring to the theory that a camera company's own conversion algorithms tend to be better optimized for their own RAW files than 3rd party conversion apps. I have to admit that I haven't gone that extra step of actually testing this out, usually going the lazy route of Camera Raw in PS, so shame on me.

It'll be interesting to see how the 1D4's performance actually stacks up, once the dust settles. While none of this affects me (since I'm not a working pro), it seems pretty apparent that Canon needs to have gotten this one right. Regardless, it looks here like it's working for you just fine, so that's cool.

Btw, nice timing on that first shot-- can't imagine being in that position over a 4" beam...




Feb 13, 2010 at 01:33 PM
Grantland
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Russ Isabella wrote:
Even so, to my eye (particularly while editing), there is something 'cleaner' about the shots edited with DPP.


plus 1



Feb 13, 2010 at 01:51 PM
John P Mulgrew
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Good post Russ and will wait to see more and I'll get mine on Monday Will use on Wed for Bball and now I can't wait. I'm going to really test it by using the 70-200 2.8 which I've hated on the MKIII.


Feb 13, 2010 at 01:51 PM
P Alesse
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Hmm... interesting thread. I don't have much to add other than I have always loved Russ's gymnastic shots and have always hated what the lighting does to Russ's gymnastics shots at this arena. I have made my thoughts known on a great many of Russ's threads regarding this venue, its lighting and shadows, and what it does to eyes and bowed heads, #2 serving as the current case in point.

In regards to noise, I have to admit that since getting a new monitor a couple of years ago with 1920 x 1200 rez, I have a tough time seeing noise in any shots at any ISO unless I literally press my face on the screen. I guess I'm getting old. With this post though, even with face pressed on screen, I'm not seeing a huge difference in noise between these shots here and previous Isabellian posts. Maybe a little, but nothing that makes me wonder, WTF by any means.

I'm not going to devote anymore time to reading the reviews on the train wreck known as RG and the Mark IV. It's way too early to make judgment. Everyone needs to stop reading and go out and shoot.



Feb 13, 2010 at 02:28 PM
rddelliott
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Thank you for the informative post Russ. Did you all see the new Canon Manual for the 1D Mark IV called AI SERVO AF CUSTOM FUNCTION AND ISO SPEED SETTINGS GUIDE? I called Canon CPS and they were unaware of it. It must of came from Canon Europe? It can be found here at https://www.wuala.com/...nts/Canon%20D1%20Mark%20IV?key=9iHjFBO8AcSQ&dl=1.


Feb 13, 2010 at 08:32 PM
P Alesse
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


rddelliott wrote:
Thank you for the informative post Russ. Did you all see the new Canon Manual for the 1D Mark IV called AI SERVO AF CUSTOM FUNCTION AND ISO SPEED SETTINGS GUIDE? I called Canon CPS and they were unaware of it. It must of came from Canon Europe? It can be found here at https://www.wuala.com/...nts/Canon%20D1%20Mark%20IV?key=9iHjFBO8AcSQ&dl=1.


link is dead



Feb 13, 2010 at 08:36 PM
rddelliott
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


Try this: https://www.wuala.com/jakob.bader/Documents/Canon%20D1%20Mark%20IV?key=9iHjFBO8AcSQ&dl=1


Feb 13, 2010 at 08:40 PM
P Alesse
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Utah Gymnastics - 1DIV


rddelliott wrote:
Try this: https://www.wuala.com/jakob.bader/Documents/Canon%20D1%20Mark%20IV?key=9iHjFBO8AcSQ&dl=1


Nope, try this. Direct DL of PDF...
http://tinyurl.com/ybenq77




Feb 13, 2010 at 08:48 PM
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