Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
  

Archive 2009 · Nikon or Canon

  
 
you2
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Nikon or Canon


It was mentioned in the sony vs d700 thread that many have abandoned canon and gone to nikon. I'm curious why this would be the case (bodies produce better images; better auto focus; lens selection) ?

I own neither; but will probably pick something up in the spring before a trip.

[I used 4/3 system for a while; loved the lenses but the body drove me mad].



Nov 28, 2009 at 09:42 PM
freaklikeme
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Nikon or Canon


That's probably a question better posed in the Nikon forum, where you'll get a broader range of responses.


Nov 28, 2009 at 09:56 PM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Nikon or Canon


Canon's unwillingness to put high-end features into mid-range bodies has given Nikon a major advantage with the D700 and it's pro-grade AF, fps, UI and build (all distinctly superior to the 5DmII). If absolute resolution and HD video are not significant needs, the D700 is simply a much more capable camera than the 5DmII. The D700 is simply a master of what it does, while the 5DmII is a generalist and while competent it doesn't excel at anything.

Canon has shown some willingness to change on this front with the 7D, now they simply need to produce an equivalent FF body. Identical specs would do nicely.



Nov 28, 2009 at 10:03 PM
you2
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Nikon or Canon


So it has nothing to do with imaging; just the rest around it. The 7d has at least one flaw in that it is not well suited for manual focus via view finder.

mawz wrote:
Canon's unwillingness to put high-end features into mid-range bodies has given Nikon a major advantage with the D700 and it's pro-grade AF, fps, UI and build (all distinctly superior to the 5DmII). If absolute resolution and HD video are not significant needs, the D700 is simply a much more capable camera than the 5DmII. The D700 is simply a master of what it does, while the 5DmII is a generalist and while competent it doesn't excel at anything.

Canon has shown some willingness to change on this front with the 7D, now they simply need to produce an equivalent FF body.
...Show more



Nov 28, 2009 at 10:07 PM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Nikon or Canon


you2 wrote:
So it has nothing to do with imaging; just the rest around it. The 7d has at least one flaw in that it is not well suited for manual focus via view finder.


Some of it was definitely imaging, the D3 and D700 had a major advantage in high ISO capability when released, it's no longer the case though now that the 5DmII is on the market.

The 7D's actually pretty easy to focus manually with its reasonably large and bright finder. Definitely one of the better APS-C cameras for manual focus work. Not as easy as a FF body of course.



Nov 28, 2009 at 10:15 PM
sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Nikon or Canon


i believe you2 was referring to the inability of one to change focus screens on the 7D which makes focusing by eye (not focus confirm) impossible through the view finder at apertures larger than f/2.8.

mawz wrote:
Some of it was definitely imaging, the D3 and D700 had a major advantage in high ISO capability when released, it's no longer the case though now that the 5DmII is on the market.

The 7D's actually pretty easy to focus manually with its reasonably large and bright finder. Definitely one of the better APS-C cameras for manual focus work. Not as easy as a FF body of course.




Nov 28, 2009 at 10:39 PM
James R
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Nikon or Canon


you2 wrote:
So it has nothing to do with imaging; just the rest around it. The 7d has at least one flaw in that it is not well suited for manual focus via view finder.



I'd buy a used Nikon D3. It's very easy to manual focus given its focusing aid system. Very fast and accurate. I don't believe the D700 has the system aid.



Nov 28, 2009 at 10:47 PM
Grenache
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Nikon or Canon


Both companies are playing a lot of buzzword bingo and only partially putting out substantially improved models. Except for the delay of the 5d2, "replacement" models have been paraded out on an every 12-18 month basis, often with little more than a new name to show for it. The recent round of new bodies was the first in a while with some big improvements.

That said, # of AF points, fps in certain modes with certain cards, and ISO range are certainly suggestive of attributes worth comparing, but since there is no standardization or oversight of features claimed, there is some unfortunate slop in the numbers and some creative marketing.

Nikon and Canon both make good cameras. Sony and Olympus are not far behind. Pentax might be accused of making better lenses than bodies, but they are trying to fix that. People willing to jetison all of their gear to buy the competing company's system, only to sell all of that and return to their original 2-4 years later, help churn the economy but are unlikely to be positively impacting their photography...but there are many people who do this sort of thing...

Jim



Nov 28, 2009 at 11:22 PM
pascal03
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Nikon or Canon


James R wrote:
I'd buy a used Nikon D3. It's very easy to manual focus given its focusing aid system. Very fast and accurate. I don't believe the D700 has the system aid.



Identical focus confirmation systems on both the D700 and the D3 - little green dot in the viewfinder lights up when focus is achieved. This is something I guess Canon either can't do or refuses to do.



Nov 29, 2009 at 01:49 AM
James R
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Nikon or Canon


pascal03 wrote:
Identical focus confirmation systems on both the D700 and the D3 - little green dot in the viewfinder lights up when focus is achieved. This is something I guess Canon either can't do or refuses to do.


The D3 has left and right arrows besides the green dot to let you know if you are back or front focused. You turn the lens focus ring the direction of the arrow to acquire focus (the green dot). I don't believe the D700 has the arrow feature. Very quick method.



Nov 29, 2009 at 02:29 AM
andrewd01
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Nikon or Canon


pascal03 wrote:
Identical focus confirmation systems on both the D700 and the D3 - little green dot in the viewfinder lights up when focus is achieved. This is something I guess Canon either can't do or refuses to do.


Canon has the feature but it only works with CPU lenses, eg Canon EF lenses and some of the new EF mount MF lenses from Zeiss and Voigltander. It won't work on an adapter mounted lens. Nikon does not need CPU coupling for the feature to work.

If you are interested in using MF then Nikon is a much better choice IMO. There are many excellent and cheap Nikon AiS lenses on the used market, plus there are the offerings from Zeiss and Voigtlander. All work with full metering, AF confirm and auto aperture on the higher end Nikon bodies. With Canon you lose auto aperture, and have to do stop-down metering. Canon does have the advantage of being compatible with a wider selection of alternative mount lenses via adapter, eg Nikon, Leica, Contax, Olympus etc etc.



Nov 29, 2009 at 04:10 AM
andrewd01
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Nikon or Canon


James R wrote:
The D3 has left and right arrows besides the green dot to let you know if you are back or front focused. You turn the lens focus ring the direction of the arrow to acquire focus (the green dot). I don't believe the D700 has the arrow feature. Very quick method.


Yes the D700 has the arrows, exactly the same as D3 (I own both).



Nov 29, 2009 at 04:12 AM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Nikon or Canon


sebboh wrote:
i believe you2 was referring to the inability of one to change focus screens on the 7D which makes focusing by eye (not focus confirm) impossible through the view finder at apertures larger than f/2.8.


While it does make it more difficult, it's not anything approaching impossible. I've manually focused fast glass wide open on far worse focusing screens than the 7D's.



Nov 29, 2009 at 08:39 AM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Nikon or Canon


andrewd01 wrote:
Yes the D700 has the arrows, exactly the same as D3 (I own both).


It's the D300 and lower which only have the confirmation dot.



Nov 29, 2009 at 08:39 AM
Yakim Peled
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Nikon or Canon


When buying into a system, a lot of parameters needed to be calculated. These parameters should extend beyond the pros and cons of a specific body or lens (unless, of course, you absolutely love a specific body or lens). You also need look inside yourself. What do you like to shoot (e.g. macro, sports, portraits etc.), how do you like to shoot (e.g. tripod only, MF only, AF only, amount of using flash, favorite apertures, weight/size preferences etc.), budget in the near and far future etc.

Generally speaking, as we are in the alternative forum, I'd say that Canon has an edge here. Due to shorter FFD adapters to Canon can be easily found.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.




Nov 29, 2009 at 09:56 AM
andrewd01
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Nikon or Canon


mawz wrote:
It's the D300 and lower which only have the confirmation dot.


reasonably sure that you don't lose the feature until you get to the D90. In other words D300 is the same as D3 and D700. Makes sense since all of these cams have the pro focusing module. Can any D300 owners confirm?



Nov 29, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Nikon or Canon


andrewd01 wrote:
Canon has the feature but it only works with CPU lenses, eg Canon EF lenses and some of the new EF mount MF lenses from Zeiss and Voigltander. It won't work on an adapter mounted lens. Nikon does not need CPU coupling for the feature to work.



With the Canon system people don't generally talk about CPU lenses like they do with Nikon lenses. With a Canon camera (any camera) you can set it up to have the little green dot indicate focus not only with Canon EF lenses and EF mount lenses from Zeiss and Voigtlander, but also with any lens with an adapter or mount conversion. All you have to do is buy an adapter with a focus confirmation chip attached or buy the chip and attach it to any lens that will mount on a Canon Camera. So Canon does not need "CPU coupling" for this feature to work--you just need a chip attached to the lens and these chips are readily available for about $30

To return the the OPs original question, IMO, Canon is still a much more flexible system for using alt glass. As I pointed out above you can use focus confirmation with any lens that will mount on a Canon camera. In addition, Canon has readily available high contrast focus screens for many of their cameras (1D series, 1Ds series, 5D series, 40D, & 50D) that are specifically designed for manually focussing fast lenses. IMO, using these focus screens is a much better (easier to use and more reliable) way to shoot manual focus lenses when using the viewfinder with focus confirmation (the green dot that lights up) on either Nikon or Canon.
Canon also has the advantage of still having more lenses for more manufactures available to convert to the EF mount. Although a clear advantage of the Nikon system is that Nikon manual focus lenses have auto aperture on Nikon bodies and they don't on Canon--although they can easily be made to have focus confirmation.

Nevertheless it is also clear that the differences between Canon and Nikon is getting smaller. The new line of Zeiss manual focus lenses are mostly available for both Canon and Nikon and will be available for both within a few months. Ditto the Voigtlander lenses that are currently being produced by Cosina. So more auto aperture lenses are becoming available for Canon. On the other side Nikon has a whole bunch of lenses that have and are becoming available because of mount conversions available through Leitax. So the advantages of one system over the other are getting smaller. In addition, the new Canon 7D has a viewfinder very similar to the Nikon viewfinders and there isn't a screen available for this camera that is specifically made for manual focus lenses like the previous Canon cameras. Both systems also have great live view features which are wonderful for manual focus on a tripod making viewfinder screens and focus confirm abilities pretty meaningless for this type of shooting.

In fact, I think the advantages of one camera system over the other are getting pretty small and will likely get smaller in the future. As a generalization, however, I do think it is generally accurate to say that Canon has more options for glass available and for focusing aids than Nikon. Nikon, however, has an advantage for using Nikon manual focus lenses and a few other lenses made specifically for Nikon that are no longer in production.



Nov 29, 2009 at 11:16 AM
you2
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Nikon or Canon


Is there a big difference between colour rendering or auto focus accuracy between the two systems (I realize - esp with autofocus - it really depends on the specific body; and when I talk about focus accuracy I'm not talking about tracking; from what I've read in the various threads; it sounds like neither system consider focus shift and accuracy mostly depends on calibration of the body; so perhaps I should have limited the question to colour rendering/tonal range).


Nov 29, 2009 at 11:32 AM
sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Nikon or Canon


mawz wrote:
While it does make it more difficult, it's not anything approaching impossible. I've manually focused fast glass wide open on far worse focusing screens than the 7D's.


actually it does make it impossible to be certain of focus. (not impossible to take a picture that is in focus ) as you look through the viewfinder and open up a lens from f/2.8 to f/1.4 there is no change in what you see through a viewfinder (not even the brightness changes) with the standard focus screen (note i've never used a 7D so it is possible canon used a screen designed differently than their previous stock screens to counter this, though i doubt it). this means you can never be certain of the depth of field though you can (with practice) extrapolate what it will actually look like from what you see. i found this to be totally unacceptable for spontaneous shooting of people at f/1.4 on both a nikon D1x (decent viewfinder) and olympus e520 (crappy viewfinder). unfortunately, such shooting is also where the digital rangefinder (nikon) ceases to be useful for me - no time to recompose and looking at the dot is distracting from composing. the digital rangefinder is helpful for landscapes and posed pictures, however it is less needed in those situations. this is actually the biggest negative for me pushing me away from nikon and the canon 7D in considering a new camera.



Nov 29, 2009 at 12:01 PM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Nikon or Canon


sebboh wrote:
actually it does make it impossible to be certain of focus. (not impossible to take a picture that is in focus ) as you look through the viewfinder and open up a lens from f/2.8 to f/1.4 there is no change in what you see through a viewfinder (not even the brightness changes) with the standard focus screen (note i've never used a 7D so it is possible canon used a screen designed differently than their previous stock screens to counter this, though i doubt it). this means you can never be certain of the depth of field though you
...Show more

There most certainly is a change when opening up the lens on these screens, if only in the visible depth of field. It's not nearly as pronounced as it is at smaller apertures and it can be difficult to accurately determine focus, but it remains possible. This is my experience shooting with quite a number of crop cameras from the Nikon D50 (awful finder) through the Pentax K10D and Nikon D300 (quite nice finders). I'm currently using an E-30, *istDS and G1 with fast manual focus glass. All allow reasonably accurate manual focus with some care.

Note that actual depth of field is relative to the final print size so no finder can possibly show accurate depth of field.



Nov 29, 2009 at 12:21 PM
1
       2       3       end




FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.