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Archive 2009 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

saaketham
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

You're taking it literally. This so called "almost 3-D effect" term has been bandied about in so many forums and almost always, from people with pro bodies or with expensive alt lenses.

True .. you may not have read about till now, but .. there's always a first time.

Nov 25, 2009 at 07:07 PM

DavidP
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

saaketham wrote:
You're taking it literally.

Actually, I'm just asking for an explanation that doesn't invovle DOF-control or subject isolation (unless that's what it is), and controled test to illustrate it.

Sorta like tests I've seen that illustrate pleasing and less pleasing bokeh.

It wouldn't be so hard to do if it were real.

Nov 25, 2009 at 07:16 PM

cgardner
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

If you want real 3D you can now get it in an P&S:
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/3d/camera/finepix_real3dw1/

To me a photo "looking more 3D" and looking realistic are one in the same. The biggest clue missing in still photo is parallax shift and all the other factors which fool the eye need to take up the slack. Lens contrast is certainly one of those factors but in the end if comes down to knowing how to fool the brain of the viewer in the same way a magician does.

Chuck

Nov 25, 2009 at 07:23 PM

n0b0
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

Have a look at the stereogram here.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/838869

Now THAT's what I call illusion of 3D.

Nov 25, 2009 at 07:33 PM

Nick Nishizaka
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

If you are talking about how the subject "pops out" at you, then yeah, I think it's DOF control and how the subject is isolated in combination with how it is framed. Nothing more than that.

I think there are a few people taking the term "3D effect" too literally.

DavidP wrote:
Actually, I'm just asking for an explanation that doesn't invovle DOF-control or subject isolation (unless that's what it is), and controled test to illustrate it.

Sorta like tests I've seen that illustrate pleasing and less pleasing bokeh.

It wouldn't be so hard to do if it were real.

Nov 25, 2009 at 08:00 PM

mh2000
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

so you say that it has nothing to do with the lens used, a crappy consumer zoom or the best Canon L or Zeiss or Leica, so long as you shoot at the same FL and f-stop the POS zoom will "pop" just as much as the quality lenses? Why are all you people buying L-lenses then?

Nick Nishizaka wrote:
If you are talking about how the subject "pops out" at you, then yeah, I think it's DOF control and how the subject is isolated in combination with how it is framed. Nothing more than that.

I think there are a few people taking the term "3D effect" too literally.

Nov 25, 2009 at 09:50 PM

mh2000
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

So you see no more "pop" from a quality lens than a POS one? Hmmm... ok. Just improved contrast will give a photo more pop for me... flat contrast makes an image look... well, flat... but that is just me. Have you at least noticed that better lenses have better contrast?

DavidP wrote:
That's because I've seen reasonable explanations and examples of what bokeh is. I've seen side-by-side comparisons of bokeh from similar lenses.

Never heard of seen such a thing on the elusive "3-D effect".

Nov 25, 2009 at 09:55 PM

DavidP
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

mh2000 wrote:
so you say that it has nothing to do with the lens used, a crappy consumer zoom or the best Canon L or Zeiss or Leica, so long as you shoot at the same FL and f-stop the POS zoom will "pop" just as much as the quality lenses? Why are all you people buying L-lenses then?

I can't speak for others, but I buy the L lenses for the fast focal length.

I need it for shots in very dark places, and it's also required for subject isolation / DOF control.

The sensor on small P&S cameras is so small that the resulting DOF is a lot larger than you can get with an SLR (whether full frame, APS-H, or AP-C) . . . a simple result of the physics involved. Also, the tiny sensors can't compete with the high ISO requirements of what I shoot.

Nov 25, 2009 at 10:03 PM

DavidP
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

mh2000 wrote:
So you see no more "pop" from a quality lens than a POS one? Hmmm... ok. Just improved contrast will give a photo more pop for me... flat contrast makes an image look... well, flat... but that is just me. Have you at least noticed that better lenses have better contrast?

There's no need to use a descriptor like "3D", though, if all you mean is there's more contrast / sharpness. Just say the technical words, instead. They convey far more meaning the "3D", as should be evidenced by this thread. Nobody can agree on what it means.

Nov 25, 2009 at 10:05 PM

Nick Nishizaka
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

Rea my other post in which I tried to explain the specifics of what I feel makes the subject "pop". A "POS" zoom will have a much wider DOF than say a 135L f/2 so you don't get nearly the amount of DOF control/subject isolation.

Also, it has nothing to do with bokeh either. I think it has to do with how the subject is isolated relative to the rest of the frame. I think it also has a lot to do with color/contrast and perhaps even lighting. Difficult to quantify.

For instance if you have a person standing on the street and have just enough DOF that the person is crisp, then you have the road in front and rear that is progressively blurred, it will make the subject "pop out" at you. Of course color/contrast enhances this, as does vignetting which give it that added dimensionality.

mh2000 wrote:
so you say that it has nothing to do with the lens used, a crappy consumer zoom or the best Canon L or Zeiss or Leica, so long as you shoot at the same FL and f-stop the POS zoom will "pop" just as much as the quality lenses? Why are all you people buying L-lenses then?

Nov 25, 2009 at 10:06 PM

DavidP
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

I've head people comment on my concert photography (compared to their attempts with point and shoots), and "3D-like" has never been used to describe the difference.

They use words like "clean" or "clear" or "sharp" or "so much detail", etc.

Nov 25, 2009 at 10:07 PM

DavidP
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

That particular kind of "3D effect" (the duck) has always left me with the impression that the subject (the duck) has been Photoshopped into a background.

In one sense, I like it . . . but that "Photoshopped" effect (maybe some call it "3D"?) is something I'm not so sure I like.

Call me conflicted.

Nov 25, 2009 at 11:34 PM

mh2000
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

yes, if you are shooting test patterns, just the technical words are fine, but in real images there are more than a few simple variables and we respond to the different variables and how they work together. No one can precisely agree on what "good bokeh" means either...

DavidP wrote:
There's no need to use a descriptor like "3D", though, if all you mean is there's more contrast / sharpness. Just say the technical words, instead. They convey far more meaning the "3D", as should be evidenced by this thread. Nobody can agree on what it means.

Nov 26, 2009 at 12:33 AM

mh2000
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

So at similar apertures you feel there is no difference at all between a POS zoom and an L-prime if both are shot at the same aperture and FL?

Also, if you look at the results of different lenses you will notice that rendering/transition from what is in focus and what is out of focus is different. What is the "technical word" for this property. Since you seem to grudgedly agree that different lenses produce different bokeh, you should be able to accept that the transition from in focus and out of focus will also be different. This property will have an effect on people's response to a photo, related to what has been termed "3-D effect." How do you characterize this property with "technical words?" If you know, enlighten us all and do away with all the subjective attempts others have used. If you don't know, then accept that different lenses render an image differently... and that it is "real."

DavidP wrote:
I can't speak for others, but I buy the L lenses for the fast focal length.

I need it for shots in very dark places, and it's also required for subject isolation / DOF control.

The sensor on small P&S cameras is so small that the resulting DOF is a lot larger than you can get with an SLR (whether full frame, APS-H, or AP-C) . . . a simple result of the physics involved. Also, the tiny sensors can't compete with the high ISO requirements of what I shoot.

Nov 26, 2009 at 12:45 AM

n0b0
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

I have some experience in 3D CGI and I have to say that I find it funny how some photographers insist that their photos have a "3D effect".

Nov 26, 2009 at 03:20 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

n0b0 wrote:
I have some experience in 3D CGI and I have to say that I find it funny how some photographers insist that their photos have a "3D effect".

Yeah, I've also got some CGI experience: I've seen all the Pixar movies

Nov 26, 2009 at 04:51 AM

n0b0
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yeah, I've also got some CGI experience: I've seen all the Pixar movies

Heh. Your profile said you've done fluid dynamics. I'm surprised you've never worked for a post production studio. You can make a lot of money creating a fluid sim software.

Nov 26, 2009 at 06:15 AM

ChrisDM
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

mh2000 wrote:
so you say that it has nothing to do with the lens used, a crappy consumer zoom or the best Canon L or Zeiss or Leica, so long as you shoot at the same FL and f-stop the POS zoom will "pop" just as much as the quality lenses? Why are all you people buying L-lenses then?

Generally faster/constant apertures are available only in high end glass, not "crappy consumer zooms", which is why most people choose them. Sure there are minor differences in sharpness, color rendition and contrast between lenses, but nothing that a little post-processing couldn't compensate for. Where high end glass earns its premium is usually in its light gathering ability.

Chris Miller
http://www.imagineimagery.com

Nov 26, 2009 at 10:04 AM

Nick Nishizaka
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

n0b0 wrote:
I have some experience in 3D CGI and I have to say that I find it funny how some photographers insist that their photos have a "3D effect".

Again, I think folks are taking the term too literally.

Nov 26, 2009 at 10:12 AM

racoll
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · 3-D "effect" from non pro bodies?

Nick Nishizaka wrote:
Another sample...granted with the 200L f2 IS.

http://nicksan.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p325146754-4.jpg

Wow, that's a beautiful shot!

Nov 26, 2009 at 10:23 AM

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