i currently find myself shooting a lot of alt glass on my crop body and am considering getting a full frame to get the most out of the lens at some point. my question is what camera body works best with alt glass? i'm not just concerned about what lenses you can mount but also how the camera interacts with the lenses. as i see it there are 3 choices: canon 5D/5D mkII, sony A850/A900, and the nikon D700 each with some plusses and minuses. can you guys let me know if i have the facts correct (listed below) and if there are other things i should consider?
canon positives:
* can mount the most different brands of lens with an adapter
* cheaply available interchangeable focus screens for manual focus of fast lenses
* can use aperture priority without a chipped adapter
* 5D is cheap
canon negatives:
* no focus confirm without chipped adapter
* some lenses require mirror shaving
* no image stabilization
* no ability to control aperture through camera body (except for new ZE lenses)
sony positives:
* image stabilization of all lenses - but only with a chip added?
* interchangeable focus screens
* awesome viewfinder
* no mirror shaving required?
* cheap
sony negatives:
* most lenses brands need to be converted - cannot be adapted
* no aperture priority, focus confirm, or image stabilization without a chip?
* no ability to control aperture through camera body (except old minolta lenses)
* no live view for precision focusing
* no rokkors?
nikon positives:
* focus confirm always works (is this true)?
* automatically set aperture of AIS/ZF lenses (instead of stop down metering)
* no mirror shaving required?
nikon negatives:
* most lenses brands need to be converted - cannot be adapted
* no aperture priority without a chip
* no precision focus screens?
* no image stabilization
* no rokkors?
* no pre AIS lenses?
* expensive
does anyone know if om lenses can be converted to the sony mount now since they can be converted to f mount? also how expensive/dependable are the chips for sony mounts? i've had some pretty squirrely behavior from focus confirm chips in adapters in the past.
joezasada: thanks for the heads-up, i'm really not a fan of the pro body form factor though unless i'm shooting a big telephoto lens in portrait orientation which i would use a crop camera for anyway.
olyacme: my plan is in fact to get a gf1/ep2 as constantly with me camera along the voigtlander 40mm f1.4 to go with the rest of my small manual focus lenses. however, i'm also very interested in a number of wide ish manual focus lenses and portrait lenses which really don't lend themselves well to the 2x crop factor.
as far as tilt/shift goes i was wondering the same thing and am tempted (since i have access to a machine shop) to see whether i could cobble something together myself (and sell if it works out).
olyacme wrote:
µFT body with shift adaptor:
- readily mounts nearly anything
- very high resolution
- tripod, static subject, and post processing required
Question to my mind is why x/y shift and tilt/shift adaptors for µFT are only homebrew affairs so far.
I love my XSi with Zuikos, simply the perfect compromise between IQ and portability for my taste. But I miss WA a little bit. Maybe 5D2 is the best after all, but not for my wallet as of now.
thanks. i've never been entirely sure how to interpret what the specs mean when they say whether different nikon cameras will meter AIS, AI, or non AI F mount lenses. so the d700 will correctly set shutter speed on an unchipped non nikkor lens when i set the aperture on the lens in aperture priority mode.
yes, but i'm not at all adverse to conversions if somebody else has already proved it will work. for my purposes some rokkors will work on canon - but i've not heard of anybody using them on sony or nikon. additionally olympus om and leica R will work on nikon w/ conversion and leica R will work on sony. does anyone know if olympus om or nikon F-mount can be converted to sony mount?
thanks
hobbes
hotwire wrote:
Rokkors don't fly on Canon either without conversion.
sebboh wrote:
nikon negatives:
* most lenses brands need to be converted - cannot be adapted
* no aperture priority without a chip
* no precision focus screens?
* no image stabilization
* no rokkors?
* no pre AIS lenses?
* expensive
*yes there is no adapting, that is true
*aperture priority with any AI (or AI'D lens) is possible with a pro camera that lets you program the lens info into the camera. You just use the aperture ring on the lens, not the control dial on the body
*screens? we don't need no stinking screens!
*rokkors? nope
*Pre AI can be "AI'D"- www.aiconversions.com
*Expensive? Nope. Buy used.
there are lots of screen alternatives for nikon
there are aperture priorities on all fullframe bodies and some of the 1.6-crops
you can ai the pre-ais lenses quite easily
I use rokkors
expensive? not more than other brands.
Pentax positives:
* can mount all M42 lenses with an adapter.
* can use aperture priority with any lens (no need for a chipped adapter)
* focus confirm with any lens (no need for a chipped adapter)
* interchangeable focus screens
* no lenses require mirror shaving
* image stabilization with all lenses (no chipped adapter required)
* ability to control aperture through camera body with old A, F, FA lenses
* live view for precision focusing
Pentax negatives:
* no ability to control aperture through camera body (except for A, F, FA lenses)
* some lenses brands need to be converted - cannot be adapted
* no rokkors - unless lens is converted
I recommend:
Pentax K7 Semi-pro features in a very compact body.
100% viewfinder, magnesium body, weather sealed, Live View, very silent shutter sound and many more.
A cheaper way to go is Pentax K-x, very small body with great high ISO IQ.
thanks, this is great to hear - though its making the decision more difficult. do you have any mirror problems or infinity focus problems with the rokkors you use on nikon? could you give me a link for rokkor conversion and a focus screen by chance? my google-fu hasn't returned much on either.
where do you or iso1600 see full frame nikons that are similarly priced to the sony a850 or canon 5D? i wasn't implying that the D700 is over priced (it seems to outperform both the sonys and canons in a number of areas) just that it is considerably more expensive (even the used prices i've seen) than the other 2 cameras (original 5D not the mkII). my experience with nikons is that they seem to hold their resale value better than other (non leica or zeiss) brands making it harder to pick up a bargain on the used market. for example i haven't really seen much dip in price of the D300 despite being 2 years oldish and the introduction of the D300s and the 7D.
ulrikft2 wrote:
there are lots of screen alternatives for nikon
there are aperture priorities on all fullframe bodies and some of the 1.6-crops
you can ai the pre-ais lenses quite easily
I use rokkors
expensive? not more than other brands.
I have seen tons of D700's go for under $2000 used. I got my second one for $1840 with 28 shots on it.
Ulrikft2- there are no 1.6 crop Nikons :P
"you can ai the pre-ais lenses quite easily"- this is a funny statement... AI and AIS are two different things. AI lenses are pre-AIS, and are... AI. AI'D lenses are NAI/Pre-AI that are converted (by switching/milling the aperture ring) to AI spec.
the k7 does look like a very attractive camera, but i was only really considering full frame cameras because i already have a crop dslr (an olympus) and am planning on getting a µ4/3 camera. what i am missing is the ability to use the full image circle of some older lenses.
hobbes
voeboe wrote:
Why not consider Pentax?
Pentax positives:
* can mount all M42 lenses with an adapter.
* can use aperture priority with any lens (no need for a chipped adapter)
* focus confirm with any lens (no need for a chipped adapter)
* interchangeable focus screens
* no lenses require mirror shaving
* image stabilization with all lenses (no chipped adapter required)
* ability to control aperture through camera body with old A, F, FA lenses
* live view for precision focusing
Pentax negatives:
* no ability to control aperture through camera body (except for A, F, FA lenses)
* some lenses brands need to be converted - cannot be adapted
* no rokkors - unless lens is converted
I recommend:
Pentax K7 Semi-pro features in a very compact body.
100% viewfinder, magnesium body, weather sealed, Live View, very silent shutter sound and many more.
A cheaper way to go is Pentax K-x, very small body with great high ISO IQ.
Image stabilization does work with Sony w/o a chip, but it uses a default setting (said to be 50mm,) rather than using lens input to dial in a more accurate setting.
sebboh wrote:
yes, but i'm not at all adverse to conversions if somebody else has already proved it will work. for my purposes some rokkors will work on canon - but i've not heard of anybody using them on sony or nikon. additionally olympus om and leica R will work on nikon w/ conversion and leica R will work on sony. does anyone know if olympus om or nikon F-mount can be converted to sony mount?
thanks
hobbes
I have a 58/1.2 Rokkor converted and chipped to work on my a900. No complaints.
Due to the mirror mechanism on the a900/a850, there are no mirror clearance issues that I know of on Sony full frame. Certainly less issues than with the Canon 5D or 5DII.
I don't know about F-mount, but I think the answer really is any lens can be converted, it's just a matter of how much time and frustration is involved.
ISO1600 wrote:
I have seen tons of D700's go for under $2000 used. I got my second one for $1840 with 28 shots on it.
Ulrikft2- there are no 1.6 crop Nikons :P
"you can ai the pre-ais lenses quite easily"- this is a funny statement... AI and AIS are two different things. AI lenses are pre-AIS, and are... AI. AI'D lenses are NAI/Pre-AI that are converted (by switching/milling the aperture ring) to AI spec.
The D700 is "expensive" because it is worth it.
I blame my canon bakcground nikons are 1.5?
hehe, I meant ai pre-ai.. :P but yeah. ai/ais lenses work out of the box for me at least.
nikons are 1.5?