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Archive 2009 · New crazy Ricoh system

khiromu
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · New crazy Ricoh system

If they make wider angle (28~35mm) unit with fast (F1.8~2.8) lens and APS-C sensor, then I am interested. (Assuming the price tag is a lot less than Leica X1.)

Nov 09, 2009 at 06:24 PM

AbramG
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · New crazy Ricoh system

You know, I for one think this is a really cool and fresh idea! Odd sure, but they're thinking different, addressing new issues and trying to deliver a product that will give us exceptional image quality from a compact camera.

I'm going to keep a tab on this system, I'm very intrigued to watch its development.

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:11 PM

Sam N
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · New crazy Ricoh system

Assuming a straight conversion from GBP to USD, the base unit + 50 macro combo will cost over $1600.

Even with VAT taken out that's over $1350.

Then again, if it's a good camera and is actually using the sony APS-C CMOS with the 50mm, it would still be cheaper than an X1.

Another problem is that the 50 macro is pretty long and it basically kills any size advantages over the cheaper GF1.

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:19 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · New crazy Ricoh system

Each lens and sensor can be precisely and perfectly designed/matched for one another which seems like something that could provide a big pay off with respect to image quality.

Edited on Nov 09, 2009 at 07:27 PM · View previous versions

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:20 PM

Spyro P.
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · New crazy Ricoh system

At the end of the day its not that different than other systems, its success hinges on the range of lenses/sensors that will become available, their quality and the usability of the body. Otherwise I dont think many people will pay top $ just for the option of ocassionaly converting their expensive kit to a large-ish p&s.

And they need a better designer, this camera is fugly

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:23 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · New crazy Ricoh system

Sam N wrote:
Assuming a straight conversion from GBP to USD, the base unit + 50 macro combo will cost over $1600.

Even with VAT taken out that's over $1350.

Then again, if it's a good camera and is actually using the sony APS-C CMOS with the 50mm, it would still be cheaper than an X1.

Another problem is that the 50 macro is pretty long and it basically kills any size advantages over the cheaper GF1.

That price equation almost never holds. Cameras are often always cheaper in the U.S. vs the U.K unless they are Mamiya's.

Ricoh GRDIII in U.K. - 529 Pounds, U.S. - $699

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:24 PM

Sam N
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · New crazy Ricoh system

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Each lens and sensor can be precisely and perfectly designed/matched for one another which seems like something that could provide a big pay off with respect to image quality.

Only the lenses can be designed for the sensors, since Ricoh doesn't design their own sensors. This still could be an advantage, but not as big of one.

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:30 PM

Sam N
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · New crazy Ricoh system

Tariq Gibran wrote:
That price equation almost never holds. Cameras are often always cheaper in the U.S. vs the U.K unless they are Mamiya's.

Ricoh GRDIII in U.K. - 529 Pounds, U.S. - $699

Using your own equation, the body+50mm comes out to $1360 USD.
1030GBP * (700/530) = $1360.

After taking off 17.5% vat it would be $1122... which is fairly reasonable.

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:33 PM

mikethevilla
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · New crazy Ricoh system

This is bizzare. I see no advantage to this system.

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:37 PM

Spyro P.
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · New crazy Ricoh system

mikethevilla wrote:
This is bizzare. I see no advantage to this system.

Same... I can see advantages in a p&s generally (weight, size, flatness, retractable lens, silent shutter, huge dof at all apertures), but this thing seems to counter most of them. So I dont see why I'd bother with the p&s lens/sensor. With the other lens... well its an expensive mirrorless crop camera with a normal lens. Big deal, there's a few of them already.

Maybe for a p&s convert who wants to try a little larg-ish sensor love every now and then?

Edited on Nov 09, 2009 at 07:53 PM · View previous versions

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:48 PM

pingflood
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · New crazy Ricoh system

Valorin wrote:
Interesting idea. I bet this makes dust a non-issue, if nothing else.

Yes, and in the past Ricoh has had some issues with dust so I can see them being a little paranoid.

Neat concept, for sure.

Nov 09, 2009 at 07:53 PM

Zara
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · New crazy Ricoh system

Well, on second thought, at least one of their lenses has a red ring. There, I said it...

Nov 09, 2009 at 08:17 PM

thrice
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · New crazy Ricoh system

Better hope those lenses are dust sealed as having a nice big dot on my APS-C sized sensor and not being able to clean it would frustrate the hell out of me.

For the money... I'd rather get an X1, which is smaller, sexier and has a more useful focal length.

Nov 09, 2009 at 08:18 PM

jotdeh
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · New crazy Ricoh system

Sam N wrote:
Only the lenses can be designed for the sensors, since Ricoh doesn't design their own sensors. This still could be an advantage, but not as big of one.

It's not like there are only two sensors out there from OEM that Ricoh can purchase. Also, I think the biggest advantage to this system is that they can give you all options from wide to tele and everything in between, and the system will still be very compact, and cost can potentially be kept reasonable by balancing high optical resolution / small image circle for tele applications or lower optical res / large image circle. Essentially like having a FF and MFT in one...

Nov 09, 2009 at 08:24 PM

mawz
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · New crazy Ricoh system

jotdeh wrote:
It's not like there are only two sensors out there from OEM that Ricoh can purchase. Also, I think the biggest advantage to this system is that they can give you all options from wide to tele and everything in between, and the system will still be very compact, and cost can potentially be kept reasonable by balancing high optical resolution / small image circle for tele applications or lower optical res / large image circle. Essentially like having a FF and MFT in one...

As a practical matter, there's not much choice in large sensors which are easily available. Sony will gladly sell you a 12MP CMOS or 10MP CCD DX format sensor or a 24.5MP FF sensor. Samsung would probably sell you their 14.6MP CMOS DX sensor.

And that's it. Everything else is either proprietary or tied to the 4/3rds system.

Small sensors are something else entirely, but I can't really see the advantage of using a P&S sensor module on something like this Ricoh system except as a backup.

Nov 09, 2009 at 09:11 PM

jotdeh
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · New crazy Ricoh system

mawz wrote:
As a practical matter, there's not much choice in large sensors which are easily available. Sony will gladly sell you a 12MP CMOS or 10MP CCD DX format sensor or a 24.5MP FF sensor. Samsung would probably sell you their 14.6MP CMOS DX sensor.

And that's it. Everything else is either proprietary or tied to the 4/3rds system.

Small sensors are something else entirely, but I can't really see the advantage of using a P&S sensor module on something like this Ricoh system except as a backup.

I don't think FF and even DX are desirable on this camera anyway, much too expensive where the only advantages are 1) shallow DOF and possibly 2) UW to an extent. Both can be adequately achieved with optics and a 2x FoVC sensor. Furthermore, FF and DX means huuuge lenses, defeating the purpose of the system.
I don't see why Ricoh shouldn't be able to get hold of an MFT sensor down the line if they get the volumes.

Nov 09, 2009 at 09:32 PM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · New crazy Ricoh system

Nov 09, 2009 at 10:02 PM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · New crazy Ricoh system

jotdeh wrote:
I don't think FF and even DX are desirable on this camera anyway, much too expensive where the only advantages are 1) shallow DOF and possibly 2) UW to an extent. Both can be adequately achieved with optics and a 2x FoVC sensor. Furthermore, FF and DX means huuuge lenses, defeating the purpose of the system.
I don't see why Ricoh shouldn't be able to get hold of an MFT sensor down the line if they get the volumes.

How can you say that DX sensors are too expensive? They are cheap and are regularly sold in $500 entry-level DSLR's. Further, DX does not necessarily mean "huuuuge" lenses. The Leica X1 lens is not large, and of course, Pentax's line of DX limited pancake lenses are quite small.

Some of us actually like shallow DOF and are looking to the potential for a DX sensor to get at least a little control over DOF in a compact. And, of course, a DX sensor would have better noise characteristics than a smaller sensor like a 4/3'rds -- particularly useful in compact camera , IMHO.

A DX sensor in a camera like this is indeed quite desirable.

Nov 09, 2009 at 10:15 PM

Kit Laughlin
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · New crazy Ricoh system

I think this is a great idea, potentially. The form factor and UI on the GRD IIs and IIIs is excellent; the video suggest that this is continued, but with sensor–lens combinations that are optimal for any len's purpose.

the smaller of the two combinations (24–72mm zoom) looks perfect to me, and a handy increase at the long end from the LX-3, and a similar size. This gets my vote.

Very interesting, from where I sit.

Edited on Nov 09, 2009 at 10:45 PM · View previous versions

Nov 09, 2009 at 10:41 PM

jotdeh
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · New crazy Ricoh system

Lotusm50 wrote:
How can you say that DX sensors are too expensive? They are cheap and are regularly sold in $500 entry-level DSLR's. Further, DX does not necessarily mean "huuuuge" lenses. The Leica X1 lens is not large, and of course, Pentax's line of DX limited pancake lenses are quite small.

Some of us actually like shallow DOF and are looking to the potential for a DX sensor to get at least a little control over DOF in a compact. And, of course, a DX sensor would have better noise characteristics than a smaller sensor like a 4/3'rds -- particularly useful in...Show more →

Points taken!

Nov 09, 2009 at 10:44 PM

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