brainiac wrote:
OK - sorry I suggested it ;-) Looks like it will just be a few of those speculators at the top of the dealer list who sell NIB versions on ebay at inflated prices then; clearly a better arrangement for all concerned, since profit from unfulfilled demand goes to disinterested and irresponsible 3rd parties.
The alternative would be dealers and manufacturers acting with a complete lack of integrity. Only buyer self control will dissuade "disinterested and irresponsible 3rd parties." I would never pay more than MSRP for a camera, car, etc.
Now, anybody want to buy my M9 for 9K, just PM me. Actually, I'll take 8.5.
James R wrote:
The alternative would be dealers and manufacturers acting with a complete lack of integrity. Only buyer self control will dissuade "disinterested and irresponsible 3rd parties." I would never pay more than MSRP for a camera, car, etc.
Now, anybody want to buy my M9 for 9K, just PM me. Actually, I'll take 8.5.
I don't see what's wrong with a market where the price fluctuates according to demand and supply. It's not exactly a controversial idea, even though we're all commies now.
I'm always enthusiastic to see shots from every system, and I've been contributing pictures from different lenses and systems to these forums consistently for over a year now.
Jeff was being polite, something you might want to try if you don't wish to be considered a luddite. If you cannot contribute anything to a thread maybe you should consider staying out of it. This is the polite way I am getting sick of your Leica vendetta.
This pretty much is how the current system works. Adding an eBuy type component would set a base price (7K) and then let those willing to pay more bid on the camera. The seller is always setting the minimum price. Than doesn't make sense to me, but, that might be my intellectual short fall. Right now, the market does set prices. The supply of D3 is greater than the demand and the price has fallen. The same happened to the 1Ds3.
I'm always enthusiastic to see shots from every system, and I've been contributing pictures from different lenses and systems to these forums consistently for over a year now.
Jeff was being polite, something you might want to try if you don't wish to be considered a luddite. If you cannot contribute anything to a thread maybe you should consider staying out of it. This is the polite way I am getting sick of your Leica vendetta.
Responding to Snowboard just encourages him. You either agree with him or you're wrong, discussions are not worth the time.
James, my nick is "snowboarder" - it's a person who likes to ride a snowboard.
Might be a strange concept to you, but a "snowboard" is an object,
"snowboarder" is a person.
I never understood the point of having local dealers for high ticket items, all they do is add their cost margin, logistical delays and in most cases a good deal of infuriating ignorance and bias. Are there really people out there who are in the market for a 10k camera and rely on their local 20 year old salesperson's wisdom and 5 minute training to make up their minds? Or people who walk into a store, see a Leica for the first time and go "hey this looks nice, gimme one, here's my credit card!"
snowboarder wrote:
James, my nick is "snowboarder" - it's a person who likes to ride a snowboard.
Might be a strange concept to you, but a "snowboard" is an object,
"snowboarder" is a person.
By "nick" I know you meant nickname and by snowboard you knew I was referencing you. However, you have my apology for not proof reading my post before hitting the send button. I so hate being inaccurate. Nice hearing from you again.
Spyro P. wrote:
I never understood the point of having local dealers for high ticket items, all they do is add their cost margin, logistical delays and in most cases a good deal of infuriating ignorance and bias. Are there really people out there who are in the market for a 10k camera and rely on their local 20 year old salesperson's wisdom and 5 minute training to make up their minds? Or people who walk into a store, see a Leica for the first time and go "hey this looks nice, gimme one, here's my credit card!"
I think they do, they're call rich. I heard about this guy who went to a lighting demonstration at a camera store. He was so impressed with all the equipment that he asked the store manager how much all the equipment would cost. He bought on the spot and brought home to his studio. He still has not used the stuff after 2 yrs. He is very rich.
Apology accepted Look, we are all civilized here, I admit I don't respect a company
which is creating a cult around their products and have people believe something like that:
snowboarder wrote:
Apology accepted Look, we are all civilized here, I admit I don't respect a company
which is creating a cult around their products and have people believe something like that:
is actually worth $10000, but I don't call people names like unfortunately some here do
Every camera company has a cult following here and other forums-Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc. Around the Nikon and Canon forums they are called fan-boys. I too don't like name calling. You may not call Leica fans names, but, you do disparage the Leica brand and those who use their cameras with some of your comments.
I think we need to give people room to develop their own photographic preferences, without taking shots at those decisions. I bought an M9 because I enjoy using a RF and I can afford the camera, beyond that I don't feel the need to justify my decision.
Snowboarder , do you really care what camera a person uses? In the end, isn't the final print what is important? I look at your body of work and never say, WOW, what a camera. I do marvel at the images, not the camera.
I'd point out to snowboarder that Carl Zeiss has a likewise cult reputation, and their products are also priced with a heavy (albeit not Leica-heavy) premium. That doesn't stop you from using CZ lenses does it?
snowboarder wrote:
Apology accepted Look, we are all civilized here, I admit I don't respect a company
which is creating a cult around their products and have people believe something like that:
is actually worth $10000, but I don't call people names like unfortunately some here do
I dont get it
So orange coloured products should be cheaper
Or is it not the colour that bothers you?
And you will only respect a company that will refuse a potential cult status and the money of their customers? I believe there are such companies in the Amish community. Sadly they dont make cameras but I'm sure you will find very nice embroidery products at reasonable prices
One thing I will say is: Wow this LCD is terrible. I mean it's bright and viewable etc... but it's such a low res and poor detail coming from the 5D Mark II screen Not going to influence my photos as I'm used to my M6 which has no LCD, just a little discouraging when you review your shots and they look like ass until you get them on the computer.
I think I'll turn review off
Oh and Auto WB in tungsten... not good. Let's hope firmware fixes it. Other than that the camera is a lot quicker than people made it out to be, the zooming in on images on the LCD doesn't take that long, and menu reaction is prompt. I manually coded all my lenses (none are coded) with little effort using Bo Lorentzen's $6 coding kit I have yet to review all the shots on the computer since I don't think I've shot enough to do a decent evaluation. We have some nice weather today so I'll get out there at sunset.
Spyro P. wrote:
I never understood the point of having local dealers for high ticket items, all they do is add their cost margin, logistical delays and in most cases a good deal of infuriating ignorance and bias.
The point is that most companies needs a dealer network, and bypassing that network to sell the marquee items will destroy the relationship and that network.
Whether or not Leica could survive without a network of dealers by selling their items directly to the consumer is a separate question. I doubt it, as people who buy high ticket items are also going to demand support if something goes wrong, and that is one of the things the dealer provides. But if it were doable, I am sure that Leica's analysts would have figured this out.
Truth is, I cannot think of a single high ticket item (besides Really Right Stuff stuff )that is only sold directly by the manufacturer, cutting out the middle man. That alone is revealing.
thrice wrote:
Damn this is one pretty camera... I'm loving the look of silver lenses/accessories on the black paint body. The battery is taking an eternity to charge
thrice wrote:
One thing I will say is: Wow this LCD is terrible. I mean it's bright and viewable etc... but it's such a low res and poor detail coming from the 5D Mark II screen Not going to influence my photos as I'm used to my M6 which has no LCD, just a little discouraging when you review your shots and they look like ass until you get them on the computer.
I think I'll turn review off
Oh and Auto WB in tungsten... not good. Let's hope firmware fixes it. Other than that the camera is a lot quicker than people made it out to be, the zooming in on images on the LCD doesn't take that long, and menu reaction is prompt. I manually coded all my lenses (none are coded) with little effort using Bo Lorentzen's $6 coding kit I have yet to review all the shots on the computer since I don't think I've shot enough to do a decent evaluation. We have some nice weather today so I'll get out there at sunset....Show more →
If I could change only one thing, it would be the LCD. There is no excuse for using such an outdated screen. Otherwise I am pretty happy with everything else on the camera.
Not going to influence my photos as I'm used to my M6 which has no LCD, just a little discouraging when you review your shots and they look like ass until you get them on the computer.
)that is only sold directly by the manufacturer, cutting out the middle man. That alone is revealing.