My M8 cost a third of a M9. I loose a stop due to the more advanced M9 sensor sensitivity. I loose an effective 1/2 stop due to the fact that a wide angle leica lens gets less wide on a M8. I loose an effective 1/2 stop of shallow DOF due to the 1.33x crop. But I have a M8 and love it.
Spyro P. wrote:
So with the arrival of the M9 I knew I needed to decide if I wanted it before I did anything stupid. I had no real experience with "serious" rangefinders so I decided to buy a zeiss ikon and biogon 35/2. My adventure lasted 8 weeks. Cant say anything bad about the camera or the lens, everything was exactly as they had told me they should be. Also, I dont know exactly what it was that put me off it. Although I dont usually shoot a lot of 35mm format, I gave this camera a good go, about 25 rolls in total. I slowly realised that I basically didnt want to shoot it anymore. No idea why, it just happened. I know that you're supposed to persevere for more than 8 weeks before you get in the flow of working with an RF, especially if you're a fast shooter like me, but I just didnt see the point. There was nothing special in the camera or the photos to make me stick around, I just didnt feel the love... The photos from my Hexar AF just looked better. Nothing to do with image quality, just more interesting photos, better composed, better light, better content. The Hexar suited my shooting style better and after a while I simply used that and left the Ikon home. So I sold it.
Point I'm trying to make: you can read up and discuss a camera on the internet as much as you want, but sometimes its the intangibles that make a camera right for you or not. And you will never know until you try, so do that, try with something cheap(er) first. I would hate it if that had happened to me with a $10k camera and then I had to take a $2k hit by selling it. Now I'm happy I did things that way and I got it out of my system with practically no financial loss (I got a good deal on the ikon) ...Show more →
Good advice. Personally, I wouldn't put out 2K on a new system that was Greek to me. Not sure shooting a Zeiss film camera gives you a feel for a Leica M9. I'd rather rent a Leica M8.2 or 9 for a few days and then decide.
Nahhh few days are not enough for me. And I've had a chance to play with Bessas and Leicas in the past, switch the red dot around and I couldnt tell them apart.
Wilfredo wrote:
How would you say it compares to Leica glass? Can you post a picture or two? Where did you purchase the adapter?
Hi again Wilfredo
I think it performs well compared to Leica glass, the margins/difference is so small you would not notice the difference, and i have been using the best Leica M glass for over 15 years...
(the only difference will be the sensors with AA filter VS without, but i feel i get at least
as sharp images with my 5D2 as i did with my M8's, since the 5D2 files handles USM very well...)
But right now i using the Zeiss Biotar 58, and what a gem this lens is, i don't think i ever have found a lens with so much personality/characteristics, i just wish i had found it before...
Wow... constructive, go troll elsewhere. Offer something useful or stay out of the thread.
Incidentally Spyro, I bought my M6 without having ever looked through a rangefinder window. I got a ridiculously good deal on it at an auction when a local store closed down, and I love shooting with it. It can be a little slow, but for what I do that suits me fine. All up I spent about 2500 on that with a lens... but I sold the lens in the end and bought a whole heap of other ones
thrice wrote:
Wow... constructive, go troll elsewhere. Offer something useful or stay out of the thread.
Incidentally Spyro, I bought my M6 without having ever looked through a rangefinder window. I got a ridiculously good deal on it at an auction when a local store closed down, and I love shooting with it. It can be a little slow, but for what I do that suits me fine. All up I spent about 2500 on that with a lens... but I sold the lens in the end and bought a whole heap of other ones
Snowboarder is just generally anti-leica, just ignore it!
My M8 cost a third of a M9. I loose a stop due to the more advanced M9 sensor sensitivity. I loose an effective 1/2 stop due to the fact that a wide angle leica lens gets less wide on a M8. I loose an effective 1/2 stop of shallow DOF due to the 1.33x crop. But I have a M8 and love it.
Those half stops are actually closer to one stop each. Further more, you can lose another stop because there are no affordable 28/1.4 lenses for M8 (not even unaffordable), but there are affordable 35/1.4's for M9. But if you're more into a normal lens, that's not the case of course.
That said, I've also got myself an M8. And I'm very happy with it so far.
Wow... constructive, go troll elsewhere. Offer something useful or stay out of the thread.
Incidentally Spyro, I bought my M6 without having ever looked through a rangefinder window. I got a ridiculously good deal on it at an auction when a local store closed down, and I love shooting with it. It can be a little slow, but for what I do that suits me fine. All up I spent about 2500 on that with a lens... but I sold the lens in the end and bought a whole heap of other ones
Good stuff
BTW thanks for the tip on luxecase, I just bought a strap and its excellent. The guy was really easy to deal with too.
Spyro P. wrote:
BTW thanks for the tip on luxecase, I just bought a strap and its excellent. The guy was really easy to deal with too.
I think the strap I got from them is a little short for the way I carry my camera (diagonally over shoulder, like a camera bag) so I might look at getting the "artist" strap long version from them.
I think the problem with Leica rangefinders is accessorising, it's like buying a new car, I've got a handmade leather case, handmade strap, thumbs up, accessory viewfinder, polariser finder, and a nice domke bag... getting a bit out of hand but I'm enjoying it.
I'm surprised how short some of the waiting lists are in AUS, I spoke to a couple of dealers who literally don't have someone waiting.
Spyro, glad you bought a film RF first to try it out. Every time someone on RFF comes on and says, "I've never really used an RF before, but I want to sell all my gear and buy an M8/M9 + $8k worth of lenses" people say to pick up an M6/Ikon/Bessa and a $200-300 lens to see if you even like it. They usually want nothing to do with that advice.
I think it performs well compared to Leica glass, the margins/difference is so small you would not notice the difference, and i have been using the best Leica M glass for over 15 years...
(the only difference will be the sensors with AA filter VS without, but i feel i get at least
as sharp images with my 5D2 as i did with my M8's, since the 5D2 files handles USM very well...)
But right now i using the Zeiss Biotar 58, and what a gem this lens is, i don't think i ever have found a lens with so much personality/characteristics, i just wish i had found it before...
kidtexas wrote:
Spyro, glad you bought a film RF first to try it out. Every time someone on RFF comes on and says, "I've never really used an RF before, but I want to sell all my gear and buy an M8/M9 + $8k worth of lenses" people say to pick up an M6/Ikon/Bessa and a $200-300 lens to see if you even like it. They usually want nothing to do with that advice.
good point.. hopefully I'll be OK, I've been using a medium format RF for a while (Mamiya 6). I found it quite slow to use, a lot slower than I was with a digital SLRbut probably because I'm trying not to screw up 8% of a film per shot through operator error!
kidtexas wrote:
Spyro, glad you bought a film RF first to try it out. Every time someone on RFF comes on and says, "I've never really used an RF before, but I want to sell all my gear and buy an M8/M9 + $8k worth of lenses" people say to pick up an M6/Ikon/Bessa and a $200-300 lens to see if you even like it. They usually want nothing to do with that advice.
This is interesting, isn't it.
Switching from say, Canon to Nikon, is really no big deal. Sure the buttons are in new places and the controls are backwards, but the basic camera function is the same.
However, using a RF is really different than using the slr's that most folks are used to shooting with.
I guess not wanting to listen to good advice is part of being human.
Spyro P. wrote:
lol hopefully soon you'll have a camera to use them on too
hang in there
Might be a while!
I've really started enjoying my M6 though, having a full range of lenses to use has been very nice. I need to get faster and tidier at changing M lenses though, there's no slop in the bayonet so you have to be very precise when remounting and I want to avoid dust if I ever get a DRF.
SteveF wrote:
I guess not wanting to listen to good advice is part of being human.
It's also very interesting how much effort some people put into making other people NOT buying the gear of their dreams. In this case, mostly RF camera users. As if they don't want anyone else to have the same very special equipment. They'll say things like "it takes much skill" or similar. Anything to make you reconsider your choice and not buy that rangefinder that you wanted.
However, using a RF is really different than using the slr's that most folks are used to shooting with.
And that's of course the idea of switching. It's a camera, not a spacecraft. Anyone can use whatever camera after some practicing. I started taking the pictures I wanted with the M8 from day one. Without ever having used a RF before. No big deal. Just fun to use something else than an SLR.
Is there any source of digital rangefinders other than Leica? I used Leicas back in my film days and like the size, weight, freedom of the RF style camera but wasn't aware that the format had survived into the digital era. I'm not in a position to drop $10k on a camera and lens setup. Are there alternatives?
It's not that people don't want others to use RFs. I think it comes down to two things. First, not everyone gets the incredible limitations that come along with using RFs until they've used them - no zooms, nothing longer than 135, imprecise framing, poor minimum focus distance, no macro, simple metering, etc. I don't think it takes any more skill, you just have to be ok living within the confines of those limitations, and the couple of bonuses you get for putting up with those limitations have to be important enough for you to make it worthwhile.
Second, as you put it, they are just cameras. I don't think there is anything particularly magical about RFs in general, or Leicas specifically (lenses included). It just makes me wince to think that someone is selling their $5k SLR kit at a big loss to buy a $10k RF kit that won't get them 'better' pictures and they are going to be frustrated with it. Maybe they just have way more disposable income than me and it's not a big deal.
I see a LOT of pictures on this forum at small minimum focus distances, which is something you have to give up on an RF.
For those that get along with RFs, then they are great. I like mine quite a bit. Way more than my SLR. Which is why I say pick up a used Ikon/Bessa/M6 and a great $200-300 lens. If you like it or hate it, either way you can sell it for about what you paid for. And if you really like it, you might find that you end up keeping the lens anyway.
kidtexas wrote:
It's not that people don't want others to use RFs. I think it comes down to two things. First, not everyone gets the incredible limitations that come along with using RFs until they've used them - no zooms, nothing longer than 135, imprecise framing, poor minimum focus distance, no macro, simple metering, etc. I don't think it takes any more skill, you just have to be ok living within the confines of those limitations, and the couple of bonuses you get for putting up with those limitations have to be important enough for you to make it worthwhile.
Second, as you put it, they are just cameras. I don't think there is anything particularly magical about RFs in general, or Leicas specifically (lenses included). It just makes me wince to think that someone is selling their $5k SLR kit at a big loss to buy a $10k RF kit that won't get them 'better' pictures and they are going to be frustrated with it. Maybe they just have way more disposable income than me and it's not a big deal.
I see a LOT of pictures on this forum at small minimum focus distances, which is something you have to give up on an RF.
For those that get along with RFs, then they are great. I like mine quite a bit. Way more than my SLR. Which is why I say pick up a used Ikon/Bessa/M6 and a great $200-300 lens. If you like it or hate it, either way you can sell it for about what you paid for. And if you really like it, you might find that you end up keeping the lens anyway....Show more →
Big +1 this should be some kind of sticky. well said.
