DavidWEGS wrote:
I think you are missing something about which settings on your camera equate to auto mode.
Hello
"Hello" nothing... read my post carefully:
"Manual ISO, Av priority, manual overrides . Always. Any situation."
Just because I choose Av does NOT mean I'm purely relying on the camera's brain. Hence the overrides. With the kind of logic that dismisses this technique as NOT manual, the use of ANY lightmeter would be considered "automatic". Of course I rely on a meter to get me started - from there, I make adjustments.
Seriously - think about these two options:
Manual: Manual shutter - manual aperture - manual ISO, but TOTALLY relying on the meter to give me a proper assessment whether my settings are correct.
AV: Auto shutter - manual aperture - manual ISO, and TOTALLY relying on the meter to give me a proper shutterspeed.
In these two cases, because NO manual overrides are chosen, fine, it may be semantics, but I say you're still shooting on automatic. Maybe not the camera, but you as a shooter are "automatic". I'm not sure how else to explain it.
Marcel. As you know, there are 3 variables you can control: Aperture, Shutter, ISO.
You are choosing to have fixed aperture and ISO, while letting your camera decide shutter. You manually choose to over or under expose using exposure compensation.
I choose to have fixed aperture and shutter, while letting my camera decide ISO. I manually choose to over or under expose using exposure compensation.
We are both doing the exact same thing. We're just choosing different variables to be our wildcard. I don't see what we're even debating.
bryanlindsey wrote:
David and Drew, have I told you lately that I love you? To put it mathamatically: (M + Auto ISO) > (Av + Manual ISO) Do folks just see the word "auto" and say "I'm too macho for that!"?
No I don't think that is it at all. I think it may hearken back to the days when shooting anything over 400 ISO would give you grain the size of BB's! Grain - now called noise, usually the higher the ISO "usually" the greater the noise! Why most people on this forum use manual ISO verses auto is "usually" you want the very lowest ISO you can get away with using to keep the noise as low as possible. That is the biggest reason I adjust the ISO manually. I don't trust the camera to make THAT decision. I haven't used auto ISO in, forever, so I don't even know if the new programs even factor in noise. I think that is what Sam H ment by his seconds photos looking like poo. That being said I do agree with Dave and Drew ISO settings are just like all the other settings on your camera with the exception being that auto adjusting the ISO can get you a properly exposed image, but it may cost you in the noise department if you don't have limits you can set.
Marvin
For DubiousDrewski there is a big difference in what you're saying and the reason why most people would not want to use auto iso. Mathematically you are correct, by adjusting the three variables can get a correct exposure. However, from a creative standpoint, adjusting the iso doesn't do anything for your photos. Typically for creative purposes you want to either control depth of field or motion - there's no creative purpose for iso. While I'm sure you could come up with the rare instance where you need f22 and 1/8000th, I would prefer to keep my iso as low as possible so that I can maximize my dynamic range and minimize noise. In photography you're always trading something to deal with changes in the light. In event photography I've been forced to shoot at iso 3200 and f2.8 just to get 1/60th. I don't want to shoot such a high iso if I don't have to under normal circumstances and would rather not give myself more pp work to clean up potentially noisy images later so I would rather chose that variable myself.
george malamis wrote:
For DubiousDrewski there is a big difference in what you're saying and the reason why most people would not want to use auto iso... Typically for creative purposes you want to either control depth of field or motion - there's no creative purpose for iso.
Which is exactly why auto ISO is a great idea when implemented properly, such as Pentax's TAv mode. It gives you creative control over the two variables that allow you to control depth of field and motion, while maintaining exposure automatically with the variable which "has no creative purpose", as you say, which of course is ISO.
I shoot concerts professionally, and this is a VERY useful feature in these types of situations, where stage lighting varies greatly every second. I need to keep my aperture as wide as possible and my shutter speeds up to freeze the rock stars, and exposures are tricky at best because of what I mentioned above, stage lights flashing on and off with the beat. TAv mode rocks. Pardon the pun...
While everyone's shooting style or preference is different, if I was in a venue where I knew that I would be at the higher iso range I would probably set the ISO and focus on aperature and shutter while I was shooting and make adjustments as necessary if I saw my shutter speed was dropping off. I think it would also make it easier to batch process a series of high iso shots together in pp for nr as well by keeping iso changes more constant. With auto iso, you could sort the high iso shots together for nr pp but for me dynamic range, color, and resolution suffer the higher up the iso you go and I would want to be in control of that.
I am not saying that the way I work is the right way or that everyone should be using iso the same - it is just what works for me.
While I totally get this approach, I don't use it simply because in the situation I need higher ISO, its because I am already at the lowest SS and the widest acceptable aperture for that shot.
What I don't get is the argument for Av and manual overrides, versus auto ISO and manual overrides. Its the same thing in essence. Besides, you can control the ISO by bracketing the lower and upper settings (at least with Nikon). What that will allow is for a higher IQ when the manual SS and AP allow for it. That is why I use it, cause I don't have to keep pulling the ISO up and down as I shoot to get the best IQ.
Honestly, its not for everyone, but it works well.
george malamis wrote:
I think it would also make it easier to batch process a series of high iso shots together in pp for nr as well by keeping iso changes more constant. With auto iso, you could sort the high iso shots together for nr pp but for me dynamic range, color, and resolution suffer the higher up the iso you go and I would want to be in control of that.
How do you select your settings as lighting changes drastically? Are you using an incident reading for each shot, or are you relying on the cameras metering to get you close, then adjusting as you shoot?
Thats Fresh wrote:
manual. the exposure throughout the day changes so much.
I have to say, for over 15 years before the advent of (usable) digital cameras, I shot totally manual for most things and had no option for changing ISO's. I did occasionally use Av in those times, but for some reason never really trusted my older cameras (with the exception of the F5 possibly).
Full Manual. I never even TESTED the auto stuff. Actually, the only active modes on my cameras are M and Av. The Av is used when the lighting changes rapidly and there is no chance to do a test shot before. For the rest, full manual mode (except for the AF).
Y'all are a tad confused as to what Av is, me thinks.
Just to clarify, Av (even when useing EC) is an auto mode. If you use Av, you shoot
Auto.
adimage wrote:
Full Manual. I never even TESTED the auto stuff. Actually, the only active modes on my cameras are M and Av. The Av is used when the lighting changes rapidly and there is no chance to do a test shot before. For the rest, full manual mode (except for the AF).
DavidWEGS wrote:
Y'all are a tad confused as to what Av is, me thinks.
Just to clarify, Av (even when useing EC) is an auto mode. If you use Av, you shoot
Auto.
I wouldn't say anyone is confused about AV being auto. It is just the most efficient way to put the metering bar where it belongs while being in control of the aperture. Shooting in manual and relying on the cameras meter is pretty much the same as aperture priority mode, but slower for me.
When I use my sekonic meter or am shooting with ateones I go manual but other than that dialing in comp in AV mode has worked well and I continue to use it with a grasp on how the camera tends to meter and the ability to anticipate needed exposure compensation.
That's what your camera tells you when you get the camera from the shop/back from Canon right?
All kidding aside, I've never used it. The whole idea of "too much camera fiddling" or "So I don't have to think about it" is kind of boggling, even at a wedding or event. After a while, it's not that hard to walk into a room, think "this feels like 1/xxth, fx.x, ISOxxx(x)" Set it, test it, fix it, forget it. I'm generally much more consistent (with practice) than my camera ever is. Besides, if I screw it up, at least I screwed up a bunch. Batch process RAW FTW.
Besides, it's all so much easier than Large format film. I don't think I'll be touching that beast for a while again.
