fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3       4              end
  

Archive 2009 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!

  
 
brainiac
Offline
[X]
p.5 #1 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


herby wrote:
if canon would just take the nikon d3s and make it into the the canon 3D people would be all over it..i'm a canon shooter and always have been but my opinion is nikon is just building cameras that photographers are asking for. what more can you want from a nikon d3s? put a canon sensor on that sucker and call it canon 3D and bam you have got millions of happy canon customers..do get me wrong, i'm happy with my 5d mk2. but just like many of you on this forum I wish my 5dmk2 focused like the d3.
...Show more

Canon is like Microsoft. It makes its profit by getting you hooked, and then not giving you what you want. If you had what you wanted you would stop upgrading. Even while photographers have been haemorrhaging over to Nikon, Canon has been making more profit. It knows that a happy customer is an unpaying customer, and that is why it makes sure that every camera is half-broken as a universal photography tool.



Feb 08, 2010 at 06:27 AM
mttran
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #2 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


brainiac wrote:
Canon is like Microsoft. It makes its profit by getting you hooked, and then not giving you what you want. If you had what you wanted you would stop upgrading. Even while photographers have been haemorrhaging over to Nikon, Canon has been making more profit. It knows that a happy customer is an unpaying customer, and that is why it makes sure that every camera is half-broken as a universal photography tool.


+1, 5d3 w/ pro AF will kill all canon bodies instantly. It won't be happen



Feb 08, 2010 at 06:43 AM
rhorta
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #3 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


brainiac wrote:
It knows that a happy customer is an unpaying customer, and that is why it makes sure that every camera is half-broken as a universal photography tool.


Actually as a basic camera I find my 5D pretty close to a universal photography tool, or camera for real (R) photographers. It has the right mix of features and price. It is like the 50/1.8 mk.I of FF cameras.

Basic sure, but very capable.

Full frame sensor with good IQ
Good high iso performance
Uncomplicated AF-system (with accurate center AF-point)
exchangeable screens for those who want a classic split prism for MF
Cheap

Not many bells and whistles, but a real (R) photographer doesn't need those anyway. Here you have a camera that can use without second thoughts until its shutter fails and there are no more replacements. Sure it has some limitations, but its biggest limitation is the person behind the viewfinder.

A photographer's tool, not a gear head's wet dream.

Ruy

PS. with a special thanks to Brainiac and Pixel Perfect for showing me the way to enlightenment!




Feb 08, 2010 at 07:31 AM
brainiac
Offline
[X]
p.5 #4 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


rhorta wrote:
Actually as a basic camera I find my 5D pretty close to a universal photography tool, or camera for real (R) photographers. It has the right mix of features and price. It is like the 50/1.8 mk.I of FF cameras.

Basic sure, but very capable.

Full frame sensor with good IQ
Good high iso performance
Uncomplicated AF-system (with accurate center AF-point)
exchangeable screens for those who want a classic split prism for MF
Cheap

Not many bells and whistles, but a real (R) photographer doesn't need those anyway. Here you have a camera that can use without second thoughts until its shutter fails and there are no
...Show more

I do agree with you, Ruy, but judging by the AF systems in the 40D, 50D, 7D, D300, and D700, I think it's fair to say that a much better AF system would add very very little to the price of the 5D* and would be commensurate with the rest of the camera's capabilities. When you look at the D700 it's pretty clear that much better AF isn't impossible or unaffordable in a full-frame camera of this kind/size.

Why did Canon build the 5D and 5D2 with such a limited AF system? The answer is clear to me: they want us to pay $8000 for a full frame camera with commensurate AF. While I loved my 5D's, and enjoy the good aspects of my 5Dmk2's, my next camera is very likely to be a Nikon, regardless of the glass situation, because I am fed up with waiting for a light full-frame Canon with professional AF.



Feb 08, 2010 at 08:57 AM
Dawei Ye
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #5 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


mttran wrote:
+1, 5d3 w/ pro AF will kill all canon bodies instantly. It won't be happen


I'm not sure about this, the D700 hardly killed the D3/D3X/D300/D90 etc



Feb 08, 2010 at 09:10 AM
jamesf99
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #6 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


brainiac wrote:
Canon is like Microsoft. It makes its profit by getting you hooked, and then not giving you what you want. If you had what you wanted you would stop upgrading.


I've made this point 1,000x, much to the displeasure of many here that can't seem to wrap their mind around Canon's business MO. high tech products are often like this; they're out of date before they even hit the production line.


..... It knows that a happy customer is an unpaying customer, and that is why it makes sure that every camera is half-broken as a universal photography tool.


I think it's one reason why I dislike the 5d2 so much. it would have been so easy to make it into a decent camera, but Canon always takes the low road and insures their products are handicapped.

Look no further than the 3.9 FPS. Seriously, 3.9 It's as if making it shoot at a full 4 FPS would not have been insulting enough so they dropped it to 3.9 just to make sure that at least 80% of the users would be able to recognize what was done. The VF at 98% insures it doesn't reach proper VF size of 100%; they want to insure you can't accurately frame your image without guessing how that other 2% will look in the final image.

Then even cut the LCD corner on the 1Ds mark III. While Sony and Nikon were putting the higher res screen in their bodies, Canon released their top-of-the-line bodies with the older, and undoubtedly cheaper, outdated model.

There will be no 5d3 for quite a while IMO. They have to release the 1Ds4 first, and they may have to result to some creative methods to find suitable deficiencies/handicaps for it. Once they've handicapped the 1 series, it all rolls down hill.



Feb 08, 2010 at 09:11 AM
brainiac
Offline
[X]
p.5 #7 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


jamesf99 wrote:
I've made this point 1,000x, much to the displeasure of many here that can't seem to wrap their mind around Canon's business MO. high tech products are often like this; they're out of date before they even hit the production line.


I think it's one reason why I dislike the 5d2 so much. it would have been so easy to make it into a decent camera, but Canon always takes the low road and insures their products are handicapped.

Look no further than the 3.9 FPS. Seriously, 3.9 It's as if making it shoot at a full 4 FPS would not
...Show more


The 3.9 fps is because that's the max rate they could get from one digic blah. 98% viewfinder is fairly standard in cameras of this class, e.g. D700. The 1Ds3 came out before the D3 and D700, and was probably planned before them too, since it is typically a derivative of the 1D line. Canon's 1D3 came out six months before the D3. I don't think any of these limitations are that important, and I don't think they are necessarily a result of deliberate decisions to weaken the product. The 5D2's AF system looks much more like a deliberate decision to limit the camera with a sub-par feature and protect the higher-priced cameras, since much cheaper cameras already had better AF systems.



Feb 08, 2010 at 09:22 AM
Dawei Ye
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #8 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


jamesf99 wrote:
Look no further than the 3.9 FPS. Seriously, 3.9 It's as if making it shoot at a full
4 FPS would not have been insulting enough so they dropped it to 3.9 just to make sure that at least 80% of the users would be able to recognize what was done.


I agree with you guys on the other points, but 3.9 fps is actually due tighter advertising restrictions which means that cameras now have to be stated to the nearest 0.1 instead of 0.5

That's why the 50D became 6.3 fps instead of 6.5fps for the 40D etc etc



Feb 08, 2010 at 09:36 AM
jamesf99
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #9 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


brainiac wrote:
The 3.9 fps is because that's the max rate they could get from one digic blah. 98% viewfinder is fairly standard in cameras of this class, e.g. D700. The 1Ds3 came out before the D3 and D700, and was probably planned before them too, since it is typically a derivative of the 1D line. Canon's 1D3 came out six months before the D3. I don't think any of these limitations are that important, and I don't think they are necessarily a result of deliberate decisions to weaken the product. The 5D2's AF system looks much more like a deliberate decision
...Show more


Actually, the 1Ds3 was released in Aug, 2007. The larger LCD was not only available, but it was provided on Nikon's D3 as well as the mid-level D300, both coincidentally released in August, 2007 (3 days later to be exact). Since Canon is one of Sony's largest customers for LCD screens and sensors, it seems more than reasonable that the LCD was made available to them, yet they declined. Nikon, on the other hand, accepted the offer and included it in both their new cameras. I had a discussion with a Canon employee about this; he tried to convince me that the lower res one was "just as good"... Hmmm. Me thinks not. Especially since I had both cameras side by side.

The 5d2's 3.9 FPS is just a firmware limitation and not because that was Digic's processing limit. I will acknowledge that there may be other limitations. A possible candidate is the support IC's, such as one controlling the poor AF; it may not have been able to keep up with even 4 FPS, which is demonstrably possible as it often fails at 3FPS on the 5d.

Now the 98% VF is just a 'close, but no cigar" move, as more than adequately demonstrated by the 7d. I will concede that the 7d's 100% VF is smaller than the one required for a FF sensor, and also takes less skill to align it at the factory. They can simply make it a little larger than it needs to be, use low tolerance installation specs, and voila! it still works....

PS - yes, it's true the VF is a major hot button for me in the studio, so I carp about when using any non-1 series. I'll say that in canon's favor, the 5d2's VF at 98% is better than the 95% in the D700.

I also want a professional level camera that can be used in the studio, outside the studio, professionally or casually. If I have to buy multiples of the same body, fine, but I no longer want several different bodies for different purposes if I can help it. I guess I'm living in the past when the 1V ruled the roost. It could go anywhere, do anything, with grip or without. No compromises.... Ahhh, the good ol'days....

Edited on Feb 08, 2010 at 09:52 AM · View previous versions



Feb 08, 2010 at 09:43 AM
jamesf99
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #10 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


Dawei Ye wrote:
I agree with you guys on the other points, but 3.9 fps is actually due tighter advertising restrictions which means that cameras now have to be stated to the nearest 0.1 instead of 0.5

That's why the 50D became 6.3 fps instead of 6.5fps for the 40D etc etc



Ahhh, interesting. i didn't know this. Or are you pulling my leg?



Feb 08, 2010 at 09:47 AM
rhorta
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #11 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


brainiac wrote:
I do agree with you, Ruy, but judging by the AF systems in the 40D, 50D, 7D, D300, and D700, I think it's fair to say that a much better AF system would add very very little to the price of the 5D* and would be commensurate with the rest of the camera's capabilities. When you look at the D700 it's pretty clear that much better AF isn't impossible or unaffordable in a full-frame camera of this kind/size.

Why did Canon build the 5D and 5D2 with such a limited AF system? The answer is clear to me: they want
...Show more

Seriously now, I'm certainly not adverse to such an improvement in AF-system*.

But unlike you, I'm convinced that we'll see such a fully featured FF Canon relatively soon, combining many of the 7D's features with a full frame sensor. I can wait it out though, no urge to switch systems, otoh as a hobbyist there is no real need to anyway.

For me a "full frame 7D" will really be enough to last me for many years to come, replacing both 5D and 1D3 (well I'll probably keep both for special use and backup).

Ruy

*In all honesty I'd like having

-superior 19 point AF-system
-Live View
-Micro Adjust
-high res. LCD
-improved ISO

I'm not a gear head, but some of these features actually makes it easier to produce good results



Feb 08, 2010 at 10:17 AM
timbop
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #12 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


james, you crack me up. "the 5dm2 COULD have been a DECENT camera"... yeah, I guess it could have been better than the POS it turned out to be


Feb 08, 2010 at 01:54 PM
jamesf99
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #13 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


timbop wrote:
james, you crack me up. "the 5dm2 COULD have been a DECENT camera"... yeah, I guess it could have been better than the POS it turned out to be



Yeah, I just can't let that one go. I know it's pathological now but I get a perverse joy from saying what I think of the 5d2. I also congratulate myself regularly that I don't own one.

Anyway, I have high hopes for the 5d mark III coming in 2012. I just hope it's September 2012, because the world ends in December of that year.




Feb 08, 2010 at 02:15 PM
timpdx
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #14 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


mfurman wrote:
I am wondering what is wrong with 1Ds mkIII then.


Size and price



Feb 08, 2010 at 02:22 PM
brainiac
Offline
[X]
p.5 #15 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


timpdx wrote:
Size and price


And absence of C-modes.

And weight.

And dedicated reachable iso/wb buttons.



Feb 08, 2010 at 02:35 PM
brainiac
Offline
[X]
p.5 #16 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


jamesf99 wrote:
I just hope it's September 2012, because the world ends in December of that year.


I used to laugh at that prophecy. Now it doesn't seem so funny.



Feb 08, 2010 at 02:36 PM
Mike Mohrmann
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.5 #17 · EOS 5D Mark III ?!


brainiac wrote:
Canon is like Microsoft. It makes its profit by getting you hooked, and then not giving you what you want. If you had what you wanted you would stop upgrading. Even while photographers have been haemorrhaging over to Nikon, Canon has been making more profit. It knows that a happy customer is an unpaying customer, and that is why it makes sure that every camera is half-broken as a universal photography tool.


Nikon is sort of like this when it comes to lenses. They would rather you choose between their $2,300 AF-S 70-200/2.8 VR2 (or $1,900 VR1) and their sub-$600 AF-S 70-300/4.5-5.6 VR. No tele-zoom between the two. Well, there's the 80-200/2.8 for $1,200, but no VR, no AF-S, and not much lighter than the 70-200's.

Not one AF-S f/4 FX zoom in their line (although there is the rumored 16-35/4 VR). Nearly every prime without AF-S. Two overpriced, specialty portrait lenses (both screw-driven) with the 105/2 DC and 135/2 DC.

But hey, if you want just about any variation of an AF-S 18-xx or 18-xxx DX lens, or if you want to shoot f/2.8 zooms, Nikon's the company for you. It is very frustrating to own the D700 and have to choose their lens extremes.



Feb 08, 2010 at 04:46 PM
1       2       3       4              end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3       4              end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account