The canvas style noise pattern is annoying, does not look natural, i.e. cripples images and is sometimes pretty difficult to remove. I would be happier if the noise was random. I think Canon could clip the shadows in the camera and create cleaner pictures, but this way everybody can find the threshold for each picture individually and get maximum from the files. I wonder if Brainiac took the picture with camera from the competition or with 1D class Canon, if he would be able to get less intrusive noise at the same ISO and still preserve detail in both the hair and the shirt.
brainiac wrote:
It's not even on minimum contrast. The intrusive criss-cross pattern is going to spoil a print at any size. My 1Ds3 never failed in this way. Don't get me wrong, the 5D2 is a good camera, but its files can't take manipulation in the way that some other Canon bodies' files can.
You need to use layers and slightly more advance post processing for that but it's possible.
Nothing special here - just crankup the color saturation tab all the way in portrait style. Does it looks pretty clean to anyone at ISO200? look like they are all over. You don't need to push 2 stops to see this funny noise. Wait until you pump 3 steps in sharpness tab
Nothing special here - just crankup the color saturation tab all the way in portrait style. Does it looks pretty clean to anyone at ISO200? look like they are all over. You don't need to push 2 stops to see this funny noise. Wait until you pump 3 steps in sharpness tab
I'll shoot some comparisons. In the meantime, though...how big a print are you showing us? Do you usually print that large?
RDKirk wrote:
I'll shoot some comparisons. In the meantime, though...how big a print are you showing us? Do you usually print that large?
No, i don't print that large. I just want to point out that by default older 5D/1Ds2 sensors have more clarity colors since they have less shadow noise. That does not mean i don't love my new 5D2 By the way, i am using DPP 3.6.1.0
I'll shoot a direct comparison when I can. In the meantime, this is a 5D2 shot at 100%, sharpened but with no noise reduction. This was bit more than a 3/4 length portrait and the image you see here is the equivalent of a 50x75.
At the correct exposure, noise is simply not a problem.
brainiac wrote:
I use two 5D2's and they are my camera of choice at the moment, but this is a real limitation of the camera, and I really don't see any need to keep quiet about it. We come here to share. It's a great camera, but it is far from perfect, and it has some issues that the 5D doesn't, while generally being much better.
The thing is, people generally dont like to hear about the problems, you know? God forbid someone admits camera isnt perfect. It's like, any problem reported is being met with "if you expose correctly, it's not a problem", "it's still better than film I shot in 1981", and my personal favorite "you're obsessive". It's just the good old denial phase. And just watch - everyone who doesnt think it's a problem now, will change their story as soon as Canon fixes the nasty banding in the next model..
For what it's worth, this is still falling well short of the denial Nikon users went through when there was no full frame ("we dont need full frame!", "full frame is the format of the past"), and now, all of those guys own a D700. Those were some hilarious times..
Mirek Elsner wrote:
I think Canon could clip the shadows in the camera and create cleaner pictures, but this way everybody can find the threshold for each picture individually and get maximum from the files.
Well, compared to the 5D and 1Ds3 files, the 5D2 files already have more clipped shadows at low ISO's. That may well be the problem here. The blacks are so deep and contain less useful info (compared to the 5D/1Ds3 files), that pushing them isn't a good idea. Things improve from ISO800 and higher. I mean, at those higher ISO's I see little difference between the 5D/1Ds3 and 5D2 regarding shadow noise.
beepclick wrote:
The 5D was a marvel in it's heyday, but the 5D2 is the new 5D and it's more capable.
The original 5D is a much-loved camera, and it's hard to let go of the idea that it's the best in class. It was, but not today.
I love my 5D, but apart from its great sensor I've never seen it as a marvel. Most of its features are little better or only equal to the 20/30D, and now pretty much mediocre. That doesn't stop it from producing very good results in the right hands. In lesser hands it is simple and forgiving, making it a very nice camera even today.
The 5D2 is tempting, but its AF-system is keeping me back, regardless of the many other improvements it offers).
dhphoto wrote:
Well my 5D2 performs more less exactly the same as my 1Ds3 for IQ, so something's wrong somewhere
I would be very interested to see the output of both your cameras in the noise frame test specified on the original thread about this subject. Take a black frame (lenscap on) with each at 100 iso, push 2 stops in DPP, and run the same levels on each in photoshop in order to show up the shadow noise pattern. I expect the results from the two cameras to be quite different. The 1Ds3 will show horizontal banding only, and it will be less intrusive by, say, a stop.
dhphoto wrote:
Why try and find fault with someting for no reason?
They both work, I use them both, clients like the results.
You've banged on about this ad nauseam, fact is, the cameras do their job & the results from both are great and extremely similar
If your work includes taking pictures that can't be repeated, for example weddings, then it helps to know if they are going to suffer from gross noise patterns like the one I illustrated in the speech shot. It is worth knowing that this kind of noise problem can occur so that you can devise other ways of getting enough DR, or just use another camera. I am not the only person who has had this problem. Forewarned is forearmed. That's why I share my experience here. It's not an issue for you. So what? I am free to talk about it.
By the way, i am using DPP 3.6.1.0