Very good examples thrice the bokeh is very smooth too. The E60 version have way better edge performance as the E55. But the E55 have a more rounded "biotar like" bokeh what i like so much.
JimU wrote:
Could you specify which versions youu tested?
The Lux is an 11777 version serial 295xxxx. The Summicron was an 11216 (I think) E55 version serial 356xxxx. I've got a newer E55 Lux now as well and the two perform identically optically. Functionally, the newer one has a lighter focus ring. and doesn't feel quite as solid but it focuses perfectly to infinity where the older one focuses well past infinity. I think I'm going to send it off for adjustment and then decide what to keep after I get it back.
vyokyong wrote:
Thanks for your review. It is very helpful.
I would like to add commend that the pictures taken at close distance around 0.7 -1 m which is diificult distance for Leica R 50mm. Then the lens can not show their full pentential performance. It should take picture at distance 2 m up. You will see real lens performance. This lens is not macro lens or close up lens. It was designed for general purpose which mostly will take photo at 2 m distance upward.
This is just my little opinion.
Is this true for the Summicron-R also?
I can confirm that this indeed is true for the Summilux-R 50 (7/6 formula) E55. I was shooting at close to MFD probably around 1m or maybe even 0.7 and the close up performance wide open at f/1.4 - f/2 is glowy. I have other 50/1.4 lenses that do much better than the Lux at close distance. Leica seems to have optimized the lens for longer distances.
Does anybody know if this is also true for the E60? Does it also struggle at close distances?
I am going to add to this old thread. The Summilux in the beginning was designed as a specialized lens for handheld night photography and astrophotography. Bokeh was not the intent. The early summilux's were a compromise and the summicron was the lens of choice if you wanted to do general photography.
Ignoring the first Summilux-M produced briefly, the Summilux-M type 2 as well as the first version of the Summilux-R including the E55 revision were designed for excellent coma correction and outstanding performance against ghost images from bright light sources. There were minor differences here and there between the Summilux-M type 2 and Summilux-R Version 1/E55, but overall, the design goal and character were the same. Lecia focused on the best performance it could achieve at f/1.4, but this came at a cost of lower corner performance stopped down. Lenses from other manufacturers had poorer performance at wider apertures especially f/1.4 but would beat the Summilux stopped down especially in the edges. So, if this is not your intended shooting condition, then the Summicron is the better choice.
At the time and even today this is a big deal as many 50/1.4 lenses still suffer from bad coma especially wide open. 16 years after the Summilux-M type 2 and 8 years after the first Summilux-R Nikon released the 58mm Noct f/1.2 with the same design intent to correct coma at wide apertures. In order to achieve this Nikon had to use a hand ground aspherical element. This was an expensive lens and still remains expensive today. The Noct also had to sacrifice corner performance and at the wider apertures had lower contrast. The Summilux had better contrast at wider apertures than the Nikkor-Noct. Other than the corner performance the Summilux had very strong performance in the center at wider apertures. I don't know which lens is better with coma performance. I have never tested both side to side.
It was that way for many decades until the Summilux-R E60, which looked to improve upon the stopped down performance of the earlier Summilux. Leica added an additional lens element to help correct the curvature and corner astigmatism of the earlier Summilux. The literature says they also improved coma performance further. I have not done nor seen a test to confirm or deny this. However, I have seen some tests done and the E60 seems to do slightly worse when it comes to color fringing compared to the earlier Summilux. The earlier Summilux was not APO, but very well corrected against color fringing for a lens of that era. This is the first version of the Summilux that also performed well for general use and finally it could meet or exceed the Summicron stopped down.
The next evolution came with the Summilux-M Asph where Leica added an aspherical element to correct curvature and astigmatism and improve f/1.4 performance even further. In addition, a floating element was added to improve close up performance. The Summilux's of the past were tuned for infinity performance and close up performance suffered. I haven't found anything on how it does with coma. I assume Leica would keep the original intent of the lens. This lens finally was able to beat the Summicron stopped down and is no longer a specialized lens.
The Summilux-R E60 and Summicron-M Asph are both very expensive lenses but if you want a night lens and also use the same lens for general photography, then they are the best choice, but you are going to pay a large premium. With the earlier Summilux you have to keep in mind it is a specialized lens while the Summicron is a general-purpose lens. Comparing sharpness or bokeh is missing the main purpose of the lens: coma correction, ghosting performance with pointed sources of light, and color fringing for night photography at wide apertures.
I have the Summilux R 50 E55, the Summicron 50 R ROM, the Lux Asph M 50.
Before I bought the E55 I spent hours going cross-eyed examining differences in pics between the E55 and the E60. When I stared at the bokeh, side by side I could tell a slight difference. I wouldn't say either was 'better' just slightly different. But if I was shown a pic w/ no reference as to which lens was used, it would be a wild guess.
I was happy with that which is why I bought the E55. If I couldn't tell the difference, why pay $4K more?
Taken with an R9 - after all these lenses came out in the film days! - Lux E55 @1.4 and I think Kentmere 400, which isn't know to be the sharpest of films.
cbass wrote:
Do you know if the Lux Asph M 50 is still corrected for coma?
If so, then has coma correction improved over the Summilux-R E55 and if so by how much?
Haven't got the foggiest, mate.
I just base my lenses on the images I make with them. Like this one with the M Lux 50 Asph.
Nov 07, 2022 at 03:09 PM
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cbass wrote:
Do you know if the Lux Asph M 50 is still corrected for coma?
If so, then has coma correction improved over the Summilux-R E55 and if so by how much?
I currently have the Summilux M 50 f/1.4 Asph and I have had the Summilux R 50 E55, and the Summicron R 50 and without comparing the lenses side by side (I had sold both the R lenses by the time I got the M lens) it sure seems to me that the M lens has a lot less coma. I would expect that the Asph elements helps correct for coma (they usually do; it also has anomalous partial dispersion elements that may help) and the floating element certainly helps with closer performance.
Desmolicious wrote:
I have the Summilux R 50 E55, the Summicron 50 R ROM, the Lux Asph M 50.
Before I bought the E55 I spent hours going cross-eyed examining differences in pics between the E55 and the E60. When I stared at the bokeh, side by side I could tell a slight difference. I wouldn't say either was 'better' just slightly different. But if I was shown a pic w/ no reference as to which lens was used, it would be a wild guess.
I was happy with that which is why I bought the E55. If I couldn't tell the difference, why pay $4K more?
Taken with an R9 - after all these lenses came out in the film days! - Lux E55 @1.4 and I think Kentmere 400, which isn't know to be the sharpest of films....Show more →
I see you also have a Zeiss 50/2 MP! May I ask if you've gotten to compare the either Summicron R 50 V1 or the Summilux R 50 E55 with the Zeiss? I'm looking for a different rendering style and I can't decide between either those two. I feel the Summicron R V2 might be a bit too contrasty and similar to the Zeiss and was wondering if either V1 might offer more character or difference from the Zeiss.
toolazytotry wrote:
I see you also have a Zeiss 50/2 MP! May I ask if you've gotten to compare the either Summicron R 50 V1 or the Summilux R 50 E55 with the Zeiss? I'm looking for a different rendering style and I can't decide between either those two. I feel the Summicron R V2 might be a bit too contrasty and similar to the Zeiss and was wondering if either V1 might offer more character or difference from the Zeiss.
Thank you!
When I get a moment, I will do a side by side shot of the same subject with the Zeiss, Summicron R and Summilux R @f2. I also have the Zeiss 50mm Planar 1.4 in ZF2 so may throw that in as well!
Desmolicious wrote:
When I get a moment, I will do a side by side shot of the same subject with the Zeiss, Summicron R and Summilux R @f2. I also have the Zeiss 50mm Planar 1.4 in ZF2 so may throw that in as well!
Oh my god that would be amazing! May I ask what version of the Summicron R you have? And would you say the Summilux R character at f1.4 and f2 is worth paying the extra money for over the Summicron R?
ROM version of the Summicron R. I don't know if it is worth paying more, I'm a film shooter which for me is why the 1.4 is worth it. One extra stop of speed counts in low light w film!
Yeah I'm planning to use it on film as well and I know the importance of that extra stop of light. Still, the rendering at f1.4 and f2 compared to the Summicron is going to be what matters more to me still! I'm really excited to see how those two compare to the Makro-Planar 50.
It's worth mentioning that every reflex 50mm f/1.4 is compromised to some extent in order to achieve the c.38mm back focal distance. The slower lenses and the 'M' lenses have an advantage here when it comes to both achieving good wide-open performance plus stopped-down performance.
This is the reason that many fast f/1.4 and f/1.2 lenses were of 55 or 58mm focal length. The back focus is then a lower percentage of the focal length.
Nice comparison. I enjoy the M 50 APO Summicron. For travel it cannot be beat carrying around all day - a true pocket rocket. The out of focus fall off is so buttery smooth.
