p.2 #4 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
Joe I'm curious why you want or allow Smugmug to plaster their name and contact information all over your photos that they deliver? I don't want my printing company to promote anyone's business but mine.
On another note, I'd never want anyone to edit/modify my work without my approval. Is your business that busy that you can't deal with the customer service end of your business or is this just how you have always done it? These aren't pokes at your business just asking.
p.2 #7 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
Some answers...
I shoot with a MkII and 300 2.8LIS.
I upload originals...you never know if someone wants a 4x6 or a 30x40. With a smug pro site you have unlimited storage so it's not an issue.
When customers buy prints from a smug site they are printed and shipped from smugmug labs. Their credit card invoice says "smugmug" not "Winning Photography". Smugmug takes the money and then pays me my cut at the end of the month. If I didn't specify backprinting with my name the customer would have no idea (besides the fact that they came to my site in the first place) it came from my camera.
So, when customers have printing issues they are directed to contact smugmug by the documents inside the shipment..
I can see where you guys are coming from about photoshopping my work...but I don't think the sale could have been saved any other way.
I outgrew smugmug about a year ago but haven't had the money to have my own site created...until a few weeks ago. A fellow FM'er is creating a nice new site for me that will allow me to keep all of my sales and control transactions from start to finish. I can't wait
p.2 #9 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
I am glad that the situation had an outcome acceptable to the OP and that he didn't lose the sale. But at the same time I am a little bit uncomfortable with smugmug retouching the photo without the photographer having a say in advance. This might be a slippery slope that leads to some poor quality editing that could result in a lost sale and a black mark against the photog. It might be smartest to keep this Pandora in her box.
p.2 #10 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
I use smugmug as well and while I have had issue with some of the things they have done, they are always polite and handle even an irritated person (me ) very commly and profesionaly.
While I dont think this is common practice at smugmug I do think they were trying to make a customer happy and salvage the sale. Although Joe never did say (unless I missed it) if the customer did go ahead and buy the altered photo I assume they did from the later post by Joe.
It may have been better for them to contact Joe to do the alterations, I think if he (Joe) is OK with it why should he be chastised for allowing something that happened that was out of his control .
From what it sounds like they did the alteration and contacted the customer and just handled it without asking Joe. Its not like they added a ball,it was "leg fat" for crying out loud...lol.
Its probebly in there agreement somewhere that we signed when we took on this service.
Besides they even offered to give her money back if it wasnt acceptable.
"Complaining because the picture was too real and sharp!"
Almost as bad as people complaining that they are getting to much customer service.WTH?
I can see out growing smugmug in another year or so also but I will more than likely sign up for a second year come October, best 150.00 bucks I've spent, more than paid for itself. If you dont think it was right for them (SM) to do what they did,... I wouldnt use them if I were you.
Seems to of had a happy ending for everyone involved, even if SM did over step there bounds a bit.
jni-ss
p.2 #11 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
I've been very happy with SM. No complaints ever.
It's just time for me to get a real website and take control of my own printing and profits. SM web customization can only take you so far so it's time to move on...
p.2 #12 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
Come on, why are they crying for that. That's just the real thing. If you don't like that kind of images, stop playing soccer and try to climb to the dangerous levels of the dark chess world.
Maybey it can be solved for the future with plastic surgery. I would strongly argue with the editor because they violated your copyright (in my country it's not allowed bij law to alter images without permission of the photographer)
p.2 #13 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
10 bucks says the mother complaining has quite a bit more leg wobble than that girl.
Unfirickeing believeable people want custom photoshop jobs on a $15 8x10. Can I come out and wash your car and tuck you in bed tonight as well for that price, maam?
p.2 #16 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
I don't think that any of us who shoot sports would question the existence of shots like this. I also don't think that we would argue against the suggestion that these kinds of shots are less than flattering. Thus, I don't find it surprising at all that the mother would be taken aback and unhappy about what she saw in the enlargement, particularly if the (visual) subject of this discussion was not evident from the version posted on the website. This is the one question that hasn't yet been answered in this thread--is it reasonable to expect that this mother should have known what she was getting given what she had access to on the smugmug site? Is the ripple evident in the preview image? It doesn't matter that we're talking about a normal human phenomenon. What matters is whether the customer got what she thought she was paying for. (My guess is that regardless of how 'visible' it was, unless you were aware of the possibility of this type of capture and were looking for it, you'd miss it. Best solution would be another photo of her daughter.)
Regarding Smugmug, I too think they went too far without bringing Joe into the loop.
p.2 #17 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
If you have an ongoing problem with that sort of thing a simple solution would be to activate the proof option and give yourself a day or two to review and correct your photos before printing and shipping. Otherwise you need to be very careful what you display for sale.
A short note to smugmug should straighten out the don't touch my photo issue. Those guys are great to work with.
As for charging extra for post processing, especially for a $10.00-$15.00 action photo......that's not for me. It's like saying "Here's a crappy photo of your kid. For a fee I will make it a decent photo of your kid". I would rather present a good photo to start with and leave it at that.
And Yes, a photo can be too sharp and real. If I sit for a portrait , for example, I don't want to see every nook and cranny put on my face by nearly half a century of hard living. Feel free to hit it with the blur tool
p.2 #18 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
Snap and Russ,
You brought up a couple of excellent points
1) Display resolution of your pics. There are many that think images should be displayed at very low rez in order to prevent theft vs. watermark. This thread could be valuable for those trying to make a decision.
Also, the customer shouldn't have to guess about what their getting.
I did go to Joe's gallery and it looks like the display photo's are of sufficient rez
to have seen "the" leg. I didn't take the time to try and find "it" however.
2) The proof option is a great point. I've had to call a customer a couple of times when I thought the photo wasn't up to snuff (missed during pre processing).
p.2 #19 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
I upload originals and set my viewing resolution to xl.
I have the proof option set up already because 99% of the people don't know about or how to use the crop tool...so I use the proof option to crop the images.
The "too sharp" issue has never come up before. And honestly I am not going to change anything because of it. I shoot as sharp and tight as I can and that's not going to change When the images go up on the viewing screens they need to see immediately that I take shots mom and dad are never going to get.
This is a one in a million instance so I thought I'd share it with you because it's such an odd instance. I'm not going to call smugmug except to thank them for handling the issue so well. I don't mind that they modified the image to satisfy the customer...she's happy so I'm happy.
I'm not going to go through 5,000 images and look for things like this before I upload either. I don't have a studio and I don't do portraits. I take the best, sharpest action shots that I can...always. If this ever comes up again then I will do my best to explain what they see and make them happy. Blur tools are not in my toolbox I won't mind going to Sears and getting one if necessary but only if it will save a sale.
p.2 #20 · Apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time?
Joe Winn wrote:
This is a one in a million instance so I thought I'd share it with you because it's such an odd instance.
I'm glad this all worked out. 99.99 % of the time, when we deal with situations like this, everyone's thrilled - and most pros are thrilled as they've been freed up from the customer service bit (that's what you're paying us for!) ... Steve should have mailed you, if he didn't that's a mistake (even we make 'em, though rarely!) ... holler to me at our help desk ATTN: Andy in the subject line if you ever want to talk about it.
Oh and to dmwierz, thanks for ruining Sharapova for me!
