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Archive 2009 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

bka20d
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p.2 #1 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

digitaled wrote:
I have used lumedyne, Qflash and the large Metz heads.

I now use two SB800s side by side and get more power then the other three and with my own batterys it is a much lighter set up to move around..

The big problem with all of them and my setup is lack of power.
The lumedyne, Qflash and the large Metz heads do not put out 1000 watts or even 640 watts.

I will be first on the list to buy the 1000 watt Einstein.. i would love it to be a pack and head but i will still buy it as it...Show more →

there are stackable booster modules available for lumedyne flashes which can get you up to 2400w/s, the modules contain additional capacitors to facilitate the increase in output. ...i think that you can also add two 200w/s modules to the quantum x5dr(400w/s) which will get it up to 800w/s...

Jun 22, 2009 at 06:24 PM

shoebox9
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p.2 #2 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Lumedyne's flaws are/were:

* Prohibitively expensive (beyond the most basic, slow recycle kits)
* No remote power control (this is a big deal)
* Lack of compatiable modifers
* Slow recycle, even on speed boosted fast kit if over 400w/s
* Very long flash durations if over 400w/s (except the sports version which offers limited power settings- ie 3 from memory). T.5 at 400w/s is marginal on the non-sports version.

It would have cost me over A$4k to buy a fast recycle version of their 400w/s Sig Kit via the Australian distributor. To be honest, I can't personally see Lumedyne surviving the arrival of the Quadra. Their packs are apparently quite robust, but this small company doesn't seem to have the R&D to offer a better system with wireless power contol.

Someone's going to make a fortune re-equipping the wedding/portrait world with outdoor strobes, but as things stand it won't be Lumedyne.

Jun 22, 2009 at 07:05 PM

Cableaddict
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p.2 #3 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

shoebox9 wrote:
Someone's going to make a fortune re-equipping the wedding/portrait world with outdoor strobes, but as things stand it won't be Lumedyne.

Evidently, it won't be AB, either.

BTW, a really good system (such as a smaller Ranger RX) would also be beneficial indoors, for at least three reasons. 1: better color consistency than Speedlights. 2: Faster recycle time. 3: better diffusion inside the modifiers (due to using a bare bulb)
Therefore, I think it's a mistake to "only" consider this a revolution in outdoor shooting.

Jun 22, 2009 at 08:03 PM

digitaled
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p.2 #4 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

What about this for any of the AB flash heads.

A wire that plugs into the head and lets you move the bulb and a new mini head only up high on a stand like what the Q Flash offers.
This would be great.
For when you are not needing a M light.
Keep the large head down with the battery and have just a small lite head up top.
I would buy this right away if it was out.


	http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images345x345/214348.jpg

Jun 23, 2009 at 01:07 PM

digitaled
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p.2 #5 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Back to the Lumedyne by the time you add on all the extras to get 800 or more watts it is one large heavy monster to drag around and will cost way to much.
I liked my Lumedyne setup i had but my two SB800s side by side is so much lighter, offeres much more for power settings, I use them with RPs wireless and to set the power level, my batterys are very lite and it all cost less.

Jun 23, 2009 at 01:14 PM

Paul Buff
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p.2 #6 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Deezie wrote:
I think "Commercial photographer" might be a more appropriate term to differentiate between pro photographers who use Profoto, Bron, Dynalite (which are stocked in rental departments), and those who use Alien Bees. This is not to say that commercial photographers don't use AB's - I did, for awhile, for smaller jobs - but AB's will not be an option until they're in rental houses.

Terrific thread, by the way. Many innovations come from photographers with practical ideas about what would work best for them in the field or studio.

Commercial photographers, in my world, actually own studios and don't go to rental houses. My estimate is that, in the US, 50%+ of commercial photographers us AB or WL, 25% use older Photogenics (from the era when they actually existed as a viable company) and the rest use a variety ranging from Chinese lights to Elinchrom. This sort of info has appeared in the Professional Photographers of America (PPA) listings on several occasions. To suggest PPA members aren't pros is like suggesting a Honda isn't a real car.

The people you describe, again in my opinion, are the very few ultra high end fashion photographers in NYC and Miami and LA that bounce around the globe from assignment to assignment and charge every thing to the client. These aren't our customers and probably never will be. If someone else has a better source of who uses what, let's hear it.

Jun 23, 2009 at 02:22 PM

bka20d
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p.2 #7 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

i don't disagree with any of the disadvantages that have been pointed out with respect to lumedyne...one of the reasons i put it out there was that so many people don't even realize they exist- and they are a system which is built around light weight packs and heads..... if you look at them, you realize their strenghts and shortcomings: and some of the shortcomings/issues that would need to be addressed by anyone contemplating entering this market segment.

i think that it is also important to note that smaller has not necessarily meant and may not mean less expensive going forward.

Jun 23, 2009 at 02:35 PM

rickboden
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p.2 #8 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Regarding the Ranger system that has been mentioned here, I was just on the Elinchrome site and saw the weight of the flash head is 2.4 kg. Seems a lot, are there other heads? How does that compare with say, the new Alien Bees?

Also notice the modelling light is only 50watts. That is very restrictive.

I think it is important to note that with new technology, monolights are getting smaller and more efficient. If the simplified battery power source for the new AB Max units works as advertised, it might well be a great "light" portable system.

Rick

Jun 23, 2009 at 08:20 PM

mmurph
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p.2 #9 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

This Comet 400 watt battery operated system looks interesting. I was not familiar with it before:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/333403-REG/Comet_LB_411_KT_LB_400_System_Kit.html

Light pack, light heads: 2.6 + 1.2 pounds, total 3.8 pounds. NiMH battery

I assume from their marketing - or lack thereof - that Dynalite now owns Comet?

Jun 23, 2009 at 08:51 PM

Brent Ward
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p.2 #10 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Paul Buff wrote:
This sort of info has appeared in the Professional Photographers of America (PPA) listings on several occasions. To suggest PPA members aren't pros is like suggesting a Honda isn't a real car.

I would like to see a poll with the APA and ASMP, since these are commercial photographers organizations. PPA is not for commercial photographers, it's for portrait photographers, your main market.

Jun 23, 2009 at 10:42 PM

Cableaddict
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p.2 #11 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

mmurph wrote:
This Comet 400 watt battery operated system looks interesting. I was not familiar with it before:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/333403-REG/Comet_LB_411_KT_LB_400_System_Kit.html

Interesting. At least this is a single-outlet pack, which keeps the cost down. However, there's no modeling light at all, and while the head can do 1200 w/s, the pack only allows 400 w/s. Obviously, that keeps the cost down, but they might have been wise to bump it to 600 w/s at a slightly higher price. It also has a non-replacable flash tube. That's a big mistake IMO.

The other big questions with this unit are what modifiers can be used, and what radio remote system is available. (I'm really sold on the Skyport / cyber-commander type of dingus.)
---------

The above caveats aside, this looks better than a comparably-priced Q-flash system. But for $300 more you can have the low-end Ranger RX system, which does 1100 w/s,has a 200 watt modelling light, and has a replacable tube. Plus, it takes Elinchrom modifiers & has Elinchroms proven track record behind it. (color consistency, etc)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=392226&is=REG&addedTroughType=search#specifications

Of course, the RX has it's own limitation, being 1100 w/s with only a 7-step range. There won't be much fine-tuning at low power. Can you swap-in a lower-power head with the RX pack?

Why can't digital systems have more output variability? What is the limitation on that? Who wouldn't want an 1100 w/s head if it could run at 50 w/s and be bumped 10 w/s per click? Obviously this can't be done, but why not?

Edited on Jun 24, 2009 at 05:02 PM · View previous versions

Jun 23, 2009 at 10:57 PM

Paul Buff
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p.2 #12 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Brent Ward wrote:
I would like to see a poll with the APA and ASMP, since these are commercial photographers organizations. PPA is not for commercial photographers, it's for portrait photographers, your main market.
You think portrait photographers aren't professionals? They own studios and equipment and make their living with photography. Some are great, some aren't. Same with other organizations like APA and ASMP. Associations don't a pro make. Too much pigeonholing here for me.

Jun 23, 2009 at 11:52 PM

Paul Buff
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p.2 #13 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

mmurph wrote:
This Comet 400 watt battery operated system looks interesting. I was not familiar with it before:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/333403-REG/Comet_LB_411_KT_LB_400_System_Kit.html

Light pack, light heads: 2.6 + 1.2 pounds, total 3.8 pounds. NiMH battery

I assume from their marketing - or lack thereof - that Dynalite now owns Comet?
From my understanding, Comet bought DynaLite, then Dynalite bought it back.

Jun 23, 2009 at 11:54 PM

shoebox9
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p.2 #14 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Cableaddict,

The Ranger RX offers more power variability than virtually anything else currently out there. 1100w/s, down to 6w/s (using the "B" port), or down to 17w/s if you get the less popular (and cheaper) symmetrical Ranger. To be honest, I find 17w/s way too much when shooting indoors with fast lenses. (Need some less efficent light modifiers!)

Also, the "2.4kg" head is real, but includes the weight of the thick cable. The Ranger heads are certainly larger than they need to be.

Jun 24, 2009 at 12:52 AM

Cableaddict
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p.2 #15 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

shoebox9 wrote:
Cableaddict,

The Ranger RX offers more power variability than virtually anything else currently out there. 1100w/s, down to 6w/s (using the "B" port), or down to 17w/s if you get the less popular (and cheaper) symmetrical Ranger. .

I'm not talking about range. I'm talking about resolution. There's only 7 settings between lowest and highest power.

Jun 24, 2009 at 01:20 AM

el_hoppy
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p.2 #16 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Cableaddict wrote:
I'm not talking about range. I'm talking about resolution. There's only 7 settings between lowest and highest power.

The power range goes from 1.5 to 7.5 at 0.1 increments, which is 60.

Jun 24, 2009 at 01:45 AM

shoebox9
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p.2 #17 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Yep, more settings between full and lowest power than anything? else currently available with a built in battery.

It's nice. Just big and very heavy! Give us 600w/s with a small head and a much smaller battery pack (with on-the-fly interchangable batteries).

Jun 24, 2009 at 05:34 AM

Deezie
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p.2 #18 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Paul Buff wrote: Commercial photographers, in my world, actually own studios and don't go to rental houses. My estimate is that, in the US, 50%+ of commercial photographers us AB or WL, 25% use older Photogenics (from the era when they actually existed as a viable company) and the rest use a variety ranging from Chinese lights to Elinchrom. This sort of info has appeared in the Professional Photographers of America (PPA) listings on several occasions. To suggest PPA members aren't pros is like suggesting a Honda isn't a real car... To suggest PPA members aren't pros is like suggesting a...Show more →

Your estimate is inaccurate. I've art directed a dozen photoshoots this year, all using commercial photographers, all of them used rental gear and third-party studios or locations. These shoots have been for lifestyle brands and entertainment, including fashion, alcohol and jewelry. All but one of the shoots, to the best of my recollection, utilized Profoto gear. There was a product shooter who worked with Dynalite, which were also rentals.

And Paul, if you look at my thread, I not only never mentioned PPA members, I never stated anything about anyone being or not being a pro. I stated that there's a distinction between a pro photographer (weddings, portraits, sports, news, etc) and commercial photographers, who work primarily for brands, advertising, publications, etc. and that you will rarely see commercial photographers working with their own lights, except on personal or smaller projects.

I've done shoots in Italy and England this year, but it would have been impractical to drag my gear with me - so I rented Profoto, which was easily available. I've actually used Alien Bees on a couple of commercial jobs, Victoria's Secret being one of them - but that was for a small pick-up shot that had minimal lighting demands. I think your latest improvements to the Bees are a big step in making them more practical for commercial photographers, but I don't see any of us giving up pack & heads anytime soon. The power, build and ease of use are just the right combination that makes them so attractive.

I look forward to seeing what you do with the Einstein line.

Jun 24, 2009 at 09:39 AM

Brent Ward
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p.2 #19 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Paul Buff wrote:
You think portrait photographers aren't professionals? They own studios and equipment and make their living with photography. Some are great, some aren't. Same with other organizations like APA and ASMP. Associations don't a pro make. Too much pigeonholing here for me.

Did I ever say portrait photographers weren't pros? NO.

I said they are not commercial photographers.

In response to you saying that a poll in PPA proves 50% of commercial photographers use your lights. If your going to put words in my mouth do a better job.

Jun 24, 2009 at 02:14 PM

Paul Buff
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p.2 #20 · Einstein Design Solution/Suggestion

Deezie wrote:
Your estimate is inaccurate. I've art directed a dozen photoshoots this year, all using commercial photographers, all of them used rental gear and third-party studios or locations. These shoots have been for lifestyle brands and entertainment, including fashion, alcohol and jewelry. All but one of the shoots, to the best of my recollection, utilized Profoto gear. There was a product shooter who worked with Dynalite, which were also rentals.

And Paul, if you look at my thread, I not only never mentioned PPA members, I never stated anything about anyone being or not being a pro. I stated that there's a...Show more →
This is all about words and pigeon holes. I'm sure if you ask 100 portrait photographers, or more correctly, owner/operators of "photo studios", or their customers if they are "commercial photographers", you would get 99 yes answers. Further, I think you would find many of them who also do some advertising photography and other jobs besides portraits.

These are the people we primarily serve, and these are the primary customers for studio flash.

I believe the more proper term for the photographers you describe would be "advertising photographers", and they are definitely a minority in the grand scheme of studio flash equipment.

Certainly, if you travel the globe and your clients pay you big bucks and your expenses, you are going to rent the very best equipment and studios you can. But only a few fall into that category.

Jun 24, 2009 at 02:27 PM

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