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Archive 2009 · alt. to vegabond

Luca DeMarinis
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · alt. to vegabond

This is what I use.
http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/puresine_300.html
Works well with two lights - B800 -

Paul if you want I'll trade mine for a Vagabonb II, I'll pay the shipping cost.

Thanks all

Sep 24, 2009 at 01:32 AM

Alphabug
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · alt. to vegabond

What batteries do you use and (about) how many shots at "average" power do you get ?

Thanks.

Sep 24, 2009 at 01:55 AM

Beni
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · alt. to vegabond

Alphabug wrote:
Thanks Paul,

I'm from Australia, so we have issues with USA equipment and 240v / 50Hz.

I believe your AB's used to be available in a 240v / 50Hz version, but not any more ??

A dedicated "flash power-pack" costs an arm and a leg Downunder, that is why the interest in Ghetto solutions !!

As a matter of interest, for a 300 w/s strobe, would a 150w (pure sine wave) inverter be ok, or would you recommend a 300w inverter? Also, how many Ah would you recommend for the (12v) battery pack (for say 200 - 300 shots) at "average" power ?

Thanks,

Austen....Show more →

I have 4 AB800's in the UK, all 220-240V, costs just $10 more per unit (plus shipping and of course customs pound of flesh). I do wish I could have a vagabond type solution, would kill for one actually, oh well.

The nearest competition to the AB's I currently own and what I technically should be using as a pro (i.e. not with the only supplier and repair 3000 miles away) are the Bowens 400 units. Seen the price for their battery pack? £500. Ouch.

Sep 24, 2009 at 05:36 AM

Alphabug
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · alt. to vegabond

Thanks Beni,

Yes, I've seen the price of the Bowens units, and trust me, they're even more expensive over here !!!

I've almost convinced myself to make my own "Vagabond" unit using an e-bay inverter and sealed lead-acid batteries, I'm not sure though how many Ah I need as far as the batteries go .....

Austen.

(Originally from Bath !!!)

Sep 24, 2009 at 06:18 AM

Beni
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · alt. to vegabond

I've given up on using homemade stuff a while back, I use and abuse my gear at location weddings where I can't afford anything to go wrong. I need stuff manufactured for the purpose. It's why I use canon flash battery packs and not the ebay ones and certainly not the homemade versions I used when I was first starting out that fried a flash for me.

Let me put it into perspective, I shoot fast, my strobes don't always keep up with me all the time during the dancing or whatever and that's plugged into the wall. The vagabonds give the kind of recycle time that I would need for my work, the bowens packs don't come close. If I was rich I'd buy Profoto heads and packs, but I ain't. To be honest hotshoe flashes and battery packs are what I use when I need fast location work. But they were never really designed for it or have the power to match. I think if I shot 580ex's like I do my AB800's at weddings I'd melt them within a week or so. Full power blasts, again and again and again, often every second (doable with the packs), the knocks that my strobes get, hotshoe flashes are an expensive and underspeced alternative for the tool made for the job, strobes. I'd do it perhaps if I was shooting a D700 or D3 which would allow me the iso's to shoot without compromise at higher iso's than I can at present. But I don't!

Admittedly my biggest reason for not using hotshoe flashes to do the job of strobes entirely, who can cope with that many AA's (include the 8 from the packs) after each wedding? I'm charging 36 already after each wedding...

Totally off topic, can you still buy 150 watt bulbs down under? Here they've gone all green minded and the only bulbs you can find in stores over 60 watt are energy savers which are useless for me as modelling bulbs. It's very silly that I need to send away to the states for some 150 watt screw bulbs!

Sep 24, 2009 at 07:17 AM

PeterBerressem
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · alt. to vegabond

Beni wrote:
Totally off topic, can you still buy 150 watt bulbs down under? Here they've gone all green minded and the only bulbs you can find in stores over 60 watt are energy savers which are useless for me as modelling bulbs. It's very silly that I need to send away to the states for some 150 watt screw bulbs!

Halolux and Halostar E27 in wattages from 100 to 250 are (and will be) widely availible in the UK. Why don't use them?

Sep 24, 2009 at 08:08 AM

Beni
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · alt. to vegabond

Many thanks!

Sep 24, 2009 at 08:23 AM

dazey
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · alt. to vegabond

in the Uk they are also meant to be phasing out such bulbs but there are still specialists. I used http://www.lightbulbsuk.co.uk/ to buy some halogen bulbs for a profoto head. I would have thought you would find similar in Auz

Sep 24, 2009 at 10:44 AM

Beni
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · alt. to vegabond

I'm in Manchester (as in NW England) mate

I found the bulbs for £6 each from http://www.lamps2udirect.com/pages/fullProd.php/Halolux/209
that's 3 quid cheaper than your link which is cool.

Thanks though.

Sep 24, 2009 at 12:05 PM

ericvgill
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · alt. to vegabond

Beni wrote:
Admittedly my biggest reason for not using hotshoe flashes to do the job of strobes entirely, who can cope with that many AA's (include the 8 from the packs) after each wedding? I'm charging 36 already after each wedding...

Yes indeed. That's why I use external batteries that require no AAs at all. Recycle isn't as fast as the HV packs, but quicker than AAs (especially after a few shots) plus cheap, portable and hundreds of shots per.

Sep 25, 2009 at 09:37 AM

400d
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · alt. to vegabond

Turned out the new 500Ws strobe is defective and has to be returned. I tested the pack with 1 1000Ws and 1 500Ws strobes.

------
Samlex 600W 24V Pure Sine Inverter ($230)
Very good build quality and design, solder joints are solid as well as the components used. Manual recommends using 6AWG or larger wire, but DC side has 2*20A fuse, I think 2*12AWG or 2*10AWG would be adequate since the wire length between the inverter and battery would be relatively short anyway. Remember don't reverse polarity on the DC end, it will short the capacitors at the DC end.

LiFePO4 24V 10Ah (3.2V*8 - 8S1P configuration)
@ 6lb 9oz this just rocks, for those who are still using SLA can have fun charging their pack all day, while I can leave the pack unplugged for a month, and the pack would remain stable at ~26.4V (above 25V even under load!). The pack is originally made for electric bike, it's bought directly from China, worksmanship was fair, included BMS (for over/under voltage, limiting current, and balancing) has a low current rating, which makes it useless for my purpose. But all I need is the cells, I charged and discharged each cell to making sure none of them is defective. I removed the original fuse holder and key lock on top of the case, BMS, added a resettable 35A breaker (that little white button on top). Since I charge the pack with a balancing charger, my pack doesn't have any BMS in it. I used a 100W iron for soldering the wires, which is super hot. The wires are 2*12AWG for each polarity, connectors used are Anderson Powerpole 15A, I could have done better with the connector (using Anderson 50A connecor instead), but space is very limited inside the case.

Original BMS:

Firing 1 1000Ws and 1 500Ws at full power draws about 33A peak from DC and 11A RMS from AC. Recycling for both strobes at full is 3.5s, 1*1000Ws only is 2.5s, 1*500Ws only is 2s.

-------
I am planning to make a more portable pack-24V LiFePO4 3.8Ah and 150W inverter (4lb to be ideal), probably going to use it for 2 320Ws or 1 500Ws strobe. When I am all done with that, I will create this "Mother of all DIY pack" thread

Edited on Sep 28, 2009 at 03:53 PM · View previous versions

Sep 27, 2009 at 07:42 PM

PeterBerressem
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · alt. to vegabond

A caveat in case you'll air travel with the unit: extinct the SAMLEX label...at the gate they may accidently confuse it with SEMTEX

Sep 28, 2009 at 04:41 AM

kenyee
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · alt. to vegabond

400d: dumb question, but why do you need a fuse between the battery and your inverter? You're limiting inrush current to the inverter?

Sep 28, 2009 at 02:13 PM

400d
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · alt. to vegabond

kenyee wrote:
400d: dumb question, but why do you need a fuse between the battery and your inverter? You're limiting inrush current to the inverter?
Not a dumb question at all. As safe as LiFePO4 is, a short circuit can cause swelling and generate gas within cell's packaging (http://tinyurl.com/yaac6cd). Even the Canon NP-E3 NiMH camera battery has a fuse and resettable thermal switch inside, and it's only 1800mAh. It's always recommended to have some kind of short circuit protection, especially when it comes to high power battery pack. You never know what can happen when you have the battery packed nicely in a pelican case, put it in the trunk and all of a sudden the back of your car is on fire. 35A is a reasonable rate, since the inverter has 2*20A removable fuses inside.

Sep 28, 2009 at 03:49 PM

kenyee
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · alt. to vegabond

400d: If you have a PCB after the cells that limits output to 21A, do you still need the fuse? In theory, the PCB will limit output even if there's a short...
e.g., w/ something like this:
http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo426650battery128v102ah13056wh21aratewithpcbreplacenimhpackwith4timeslongerlife.aspx

Sep 28, 2009 at 04:33 PM

400d
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · alt. to vegabond

It appears that the LiFePO4 BMS (according to the pdf spec.) from batteryspace.com do automatically reset after over current or a short, so it works like a resettable fuse. I found it's annoying to have a BMS, I need to have extra wires, and if the BMS somehow malfunctions, I will be stuck with a brick in field. You can add connectors between the pack and BMS, if the BMS malfunctions, simply connect the pack directly to the inverter. If you decided to go with a 12V (4S1P) and 300W inverter, you will need a BMS with 30-40A limit (http://tinyurl.com/yearvnm - according to spec., this BMS won't tripped until the current is 100A+/-10A)

Sep 28, 2009 at 05:12 PM

Alphabug
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · alt. to vegabond

OK, My "eBay Special" inverter arrived this morning, 300w/600w peak, Pure Sine Wave.

It came with a cigarette lighter plug and alligator clips.

(NOTE: The inverter is Australian "C-Tick" approved, sort-of-similar-to-but-not-quite-the-same as the US UL-Listed)

I have an old Fork-Lift battery that I came across in a previous life (12v / 35Ah @ 20 hr rate) that I charged up yesterday.

Also in the mix is an "eBay Special" 250w/s strobe with 50w modelling light.

I made sure the inverter was "OFF" and using the alligator leads I connected the inverter to the battery and turned the inverter on.

So far so good....Turned the inverter off, and with the modelling lamp removed from the strobe, plugged the strobe in, turned the inverter on, and nothing happened !!

OK..... Best I turn the strobe on !!

Did that, the fan in the inverter ran, the strobe went "BEEP" and the "READY" light came on, and the fan in the inverter stopped running.

With the strobe set to 1/1 power, I hit the "TEST" switch on the strobe, it flashed, the inverter fan ran, and one hippopotamus, two hippopotamus, later the green "READY" light came on the strobe and the inverter fan stopped running.

Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat...You get the idea

Insert 50w modelling globe.....Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat..........

Using my highly accurate, chronometer certified, one hippopotamus, two hippopotamus timing mechanism, the recharge time for the strobe appears to be the same for the mains power so it does not appear that the strobe is drawing the maximum current that the inverter can supply.

I have a shoot on the weekend (weather permitting)...I'll post "field-trial" results later.

HTH,

Austen.

Sep 29, 2009 at 10:34 PM

kenyee
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · alt. to vegabond

400d: another dumb question if I might. Does LiFePO4 last longer during regular use than a NiMH pack of the same AH rating?
E.g., these two:
http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo438120pbattery128v10ah128wh30aratewithpcm.aspx
http://www.batteryspace.com/nimhbatterypack12v10ah2x5dfor12vdcportabledevices.aspx
Amperage output is the same, weight is the same. LiFePo will hold it's charge but if you don't mind charging NiMH before you use it, there doesn't seem to be a downside (though I'd have to add a fuse since there's no PCB limiting current on the NiMH pack)?
Thx

Sep 30, 2009 at 01:44 PM

Scott Clark
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · alt. to vegabond

kenyee wrote:
400d: another dumb question if I might. Does LiFePO4 last longer during regular use than a NiMH pack of the same AH rating?
E.g., these two:
http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo438120pbattery128v10ah128wh30aratewithpcm.aspx
http://www.batteryspace.com/nimhbatterypack12v10ah2x5dfor12vdcportabledevices.aspx
Amperage output is the same, weight is the same. LiFePo will hold it's charge but if you don't mind charging NiMH before you use it, there doesn't seem to be a downside (though I'd have to add a fuse since there's no PCB limiting current on the NiMH pack)?
Thx

I've got that same NIMH pack that I use to run a pair of Norman 200b packs at the same time. I have a bag that the battery, two packs, and two heads and cables all fit very nicely into. Doesn't weigh much either, and can give 400 w/s if I really need it. I've wondered how well that battery would work with an inverter...works great with my little Normans, but they're 12V to start with.

Sep 30, 2009 at 01:59 PM

Alphabug
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · alt. to vegabond

For no real scientific reasoning whatsoever, I thought that I'd be looking at somewhat of a minimum of 15 Ah worth of battery.

On a cost / power ratio, I don't think you can beat SLA.....For $159.95 or $99.95 you can buy a LOT of SLA Amps.....

As an example, from the same vendor.....

http://www.batteryspace.com/sealedleadacidbattery12v20ah240whs.aspx

2 * 20 Ah SLA for $100, or if you're really serious........

http://www.batteryspace.com/sealedleadacidbattery12v35ahla-12v35ah.aspx

2 * 35 Ah SLA (with built-in carry handle) for $180.00

Of course, SLA batteries cannot even come close to competing on weight, and if you're going to carry your camera, lenses, light-stands, strobes, modifiers, inverter and power cables and battery up a mountain then LiFePO4 or NiMH are the way to go, but personally with all that crap to carry I park my vehicle within easy walking distance of my shoot wherever possible !!

As always, there's no right answer, just whatever is best for you.

As with everything in life it's a trade-off, in this case capacity and cost Vs weight !!!

Austen.

Sep 30, 2009 at 05:36 PM

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