p.2 #1 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
weeums wrote:
anyone notice that deb asks great questions and gets good participation from FM'ers on her questions... .which in turn leads to a whole lot of learning all around? good job Deb.
I shoot Nikon - so I won't pretend to have an opinion... er.... well I have an opinion like everyone - just not about said topic and question !
good luck,
-travis
Let me pre-face my comments by saying that they are by no means intended to come off sexist... if they do, I'm sorry. It was not my intention. I beleive that a great photographer can be either male or female.
I've noticed this as well... Deb posts very good questions and usually gets a huge response. My wife and I are members of several boards under seperate screen names and whenever she posts, she always gets overwhelming responses. This industry is predominantly male (speaking of photography in general, while the wedding forum is probably much more even, many of the other subcategories here are predominantly male) and I think that despite all of our best efforts to be fair... when we (the males) see a female post a question or comment. We look/read it. That's just my two cents... I definitely appreciate Deb for all of the topics she brings up, though, as I have learned a tremendous amount from the discussion that many of her threads have generated. It is also evident that she is learning a lot as well.. and her skill will be a force to be reckoned with.
p.2 #3 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
Just before Christmas, I picked up a 2nd hand 1ds III and I have to say it's the best thing I've ever shot with. I've owned a 5d for a while, and loved the images from it, and also have 2 1dIII's (mainly do sports, and the odd wedding). I'm now planning to sell a 1dIII and use the 1dsIII as my second sports camera. I nearly never use 10fps for sports, usually taking one or 2 shots for any piece of peak action (bit like using 10fps to shoot putting on the rings - just decide what shot you want and take it).
look for a 2nd hand 1dsiii - it really is the best of all worlds.
p.2 #5 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
Deb Brundage wrote:
Ok, for some reason my husband gets all nervous when I talk about getting another camera. I need an extra backup camera asside from the one I borrow and I've been looking at getting another used 5D in the future. The pros of this are that the 5D is a great camera and I can get it for a great price if I'm patient.
BUT my husband has now decided he wants to get into sports photography and he is actively looking at the 1D series of cameras. Of course he has never shot sports and I have no idea if this will really go anywhere, but I'm just excited that he's really excited about getting another camera. I would prefer that we have a camera that will be good for both sports AND weddings. As much as I'd like the 1DsIII, I don't see that kind of money in our future this year. So here are my requirements:
-must be full frame.
-must have high ISO capabilities
-must have good images at high ISO
The things I like about the 1DsII is the dual card slots and the focus points -- I'm assuming it's better at focusing in low light than the 5DmkII. Of course, I know the 5DmkII can go up to 12800 ISO and has really great IQ. I have noticed that even with lenses wide open at f/1.8 and 3200 ISO, I sometimes need better low light capabilities. So while we won't be buying another camera for a while, I thought I would start figuring out what we'll get....Show more →
Unfortunately Deb, your qualifiers rule out the vast majority of cameras on the market. Also, Canon simply doesn't make a good "transition" camera at this point. Nikon owns this with their FX sensor which changes to a DX with the press of a button. The D3 is really the camera you seek at the point of your post.
IMO, the 1DIIn offers the best bang for the buck--
Though I know I am in the minority, I would give serious consideration to the 1DIIn. It is a monster at sports, has great high ISO images and can be gotten at a very reasonable price. Though I don't want to start a battle with anyone who has the III, I've downloaded enough images to say that the "vast IQ superiority" proclaimed by many simply isn't as vast as posted. I've downloaded action high ISO and studio images. Though I admit the higher ISO images are slightly better [not by much], studio images are indistinguishable. I've also found the 1.255 crop of the IIn to be very usable and a nice balance between the huge crop of Canon's other cameras and their full frame.
I'm not certain what your husbands expertise nor goals might be. But, if he is just getting into photography, spending $$ on the latest camera may not be a good fiscal move. Any image he could make with the MIII could easily be made with the MIIn. He can use the saved money to market his new business.
p.2 #7 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
coffee-black wrote:
Unfortunately Deb, your qualifiers rule out the vast majority of cameras on the market. Also, Canon simply doesn't make a good "transition" camera at this point. Nikon owns this with their FX sensor which changes to a DX with the press of a button. The D3 is really the camera you seek at the point of your post.
IMO, the 1DIIn offers the best bang for the buck--
Though I know I am in the minority, I would give serious consideration to the 1DIIn. It is a monster at sports, has great high ISO images and can be gotten at a very reasonable price. Though I don't want to start a battle with anyone who has the III, I've downloaded enough images to say that the "vast IQ superiority" proclaimed by many simply isn't as vast as posted. I've downloaded action high ISO and studio images. Though I admit the higher ISO images are slightly better [not by much], studio images are indistinguishable. I've also found the 1.255 crop of the IIn to be very usable and a nice balance between the huge crop of Canon's other cameras and their full frame.
I'm not certain what your husbands expertise nor goals might be. But, if he is just getting into photography, spending $$ on the latest camera may not be a good fiscal move. Any image he could make with the MIII could easily be made with the MIIn. He can use the saved money to market his new business.
I'd have to respectfully disagree with your opinion. Also having used, and owned the Canon 300D, 350D, 1DMarkII, 1DMarkIIN, 5D, 1DMarkIII, the 1DMarkIII is the best bang for the buck.
The MarkIII gets me tracking and autofocus where my MarkIIN failed me. The 5D, I won't even use for a wedding because I move and track so much. The handling just isn't there.
The MarkII's and MarkIIN's are great for sports, but they lose the battle with high ISO. I can and do, shoot all natural light wedding at ISO 2500+ on the MarkIII and the album spreads are pristine.
In the Studio a 300D will shine. Anything at ISO 100-200 better shine, but then it's just pixel peeping and IQ measurbators that go off. Thankfully no one like that here today.
Like the majority of user, the MarkIII is the best combonation that I can recommend without switching systems.
p.2 #8 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
tmiller wrote:
The MarkII's and MarkIIN's are great for sports, but they lose the battle with high ISO. I can and do, shoot all natural light wedding at ISO 2500+ on the MarkIII and the album spreads are pristine.
We'll all have our own opinions and thresholds with which to live. Again, don't want to start a battle over 2 wonderful cameras... But, if you believe your MIII, ISO2500+ images are pristine and the IIn files are significantly worse [in album prints]...OK. I've simply not viewed any posted images which support it.
I'd still take the IIn and the extra cash to start my business. You cannot go wrong with either...of course if you get a III that doesn't focus properly, you may not agree.
p.2 #9 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
coffee-black wrote:
Unfortunately Deb, your qualifiers rule out the vast majority of cameras on the market. Also, Canon simply doesn't make a good "transition" camera at this point. Nikon owns this with their FX sensor which changes to a DX with the press of a button. The D3 is really the camera you seek at the point of your post.
IMO, the 1DIIn offers the best bang for the buck--
Though I know I am in the minority, I would give serious consideration to the 1DIIn. It is a monster at sports, has great high ISO images and can be gotten at a very reasonable price. Though I don't want to start a battle with anyone who has the III, I've downloaded enough images to say that the "vast IQ superiority" proclaimed by many simply isn't as vast as posted. I've downloaded action high ISO and studio images. Though I admit the higher ISO images are slightly better [not by much], studio images are indistinguishable. I've also found the 1.255 crop of the IIn to be very usable and a nice balance between the huge crop of Canon's other cameras and their full frame.
I'm not certain what your husbands expertise nor goals might be. But, if he is just getting into photography, spending $$ on the latest camera may not be a good fiscal move. Any image he could make with the MIII could easily be made with the MIIn. He can use the saved money to market his new business.
Coffee-black you are not alone, the M2n is a great dual purpose camera. No it's not a M3 but 10 fps isn't always needed even in sports. I've made excellent 16x20 and 20x30's with 8mp. I've shot some sports with my Ds and it did great. Is it the ultimate sports camera, NO. Can it do sports YES. Is it a great wedding camera, YES. With the 5Dm2 you're going to need more computing power and new software to get the most from it. For the money I'd go 1-series mostly because I'm spoiled now. 1Dmk2n, 1DsM2 can both be had for great prices now. Ultimately the choice is yours, you know what your pocket can handle.
p.2 #10 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
coffee-black wrote:
We'll all have our own opinions and thresholds with which to live. Again, don't want to start a battle over 2 wonderful cameras... But, if you believe your MIII, ISO2500+ images are pristine and the IIn files are significantly worse [in album prints]...OK. I've simply not viewed any posted images which support it.
I'd still take the IIn and the extra cash to start my business. You cannot go wrong with either...of course if you get a III that doesn't focus properly, you may not agree.
>rw
I grew (along with the business) into the MarkIII, but the autofocus system may have it's slight downfalls, but it's impeccable in dark dungeon like churches, and that's the main concern. The files are 1 1/2 stops better on the MarkIII and that's a huge difference.
-Tim
p.s. With all this said... I still won't retire my MarkII from it's backup role. Gotta have pro bodies, if I want to do pro work.
p.2 #11 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
tmiller wrote:
I grew (along with the business) into the MarkIII, but the autofocus system may have it's slight downfalls, but it's impeccable in dark dungeon like churches, and that's the main concern. The files are 1 1/2 stops better on the MarkIII and that's a huge difference.
-Tim
Hi Tim:
I hope you're taking this correspondence with a smile, as no disrespect nor "bashing" is intended on my part. I see it simply as a difference in perspective and welcome the discussion. Hope it is being received that way.
I believe the auto focus issue was more than a slight downfall. It made the camera a complete failure as per it's intended market segment. And though [at this point] conjecture, I simply don't see a 1.5 stop advantage, with respect to noise, as compared with the IIn. Perhaps 1 stop...but not until you get over ISO3200. But, I will admit that most of my assessment has been through downloads and with only 30 or 40 images I got to make myself when considering the camera.
I also admit that I am not a "pixel-peeping-hound." I am thankful that yesterday's technology seems a much better business proposition than does the latest offerings to my eyes. Also, when printing, the vast majority of difference that I do see, simply never materializes in album size prints.
One of the best things you can say about the camera market is that a "bad" choice in equipment purchasing would be a task now. There is simply no shortage of great equipment...used or new.
p.2 #12 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
coffee-black wrote:
Hi Tim:
I hope you're taking this correspondence with a smile, as no disrespect nor "bashing" is intended on my part. I see it simply as a difference in perspective and welcome the discussion. Hope it is being received that way.
I believe the auto focus issue was more than a slight downfall. It made the camera a complete failure as per it's intended market segment. And though [at this point] conjecture, I simply don't see a 1.5 stop advantage, with respect to noise, as compared with the IIn. Perhaps 1 stop...but not until you get over ISO3200. But, I will admit that most of my assessment has been through downloads and with only 30 or 40 images I got to make myself when considering the camera.
I also admit that I am not a "pixel-peeping-hound." I am thankful that yesterday's technology seems a much better business proposition than does the latest offerings to my eyes. Also, when printing, the vast majority of difference that I do see, simply never materializes in album size prints.
One of the best things you can say about the camera market is that a "bad" choice in equipment purchasing would be a task now. There is simply no shortage of great equipment...used or new.
Oh I'm a discusser with the best of em brother. =o) People get caught up into too many internet feuds about pc or mac, canon/nikon, this/that. =o) ehehee... I laugh usually when I read through my posts. I try to argue here, and not with my wife. Hahaha....
You're right about equipment though, it's hard to make a bad decision. I love love LOVE my MarkII, but my MarkIII is indespencable. It gets shots the MarkII could not get. With a higher, cleaner, iso, combined with 1.4 or better glass I get my shutterspeeds up to where I "want" them. I like control, and the 1Series (all of them) deliver that in spades.
I think the point of the thread is, you can't go wrong with a 1Series... period. =o) I have a 2nd hand, fixed by Canon pre-blue dot MarkIII, and it performs great. I do watch it cafeully in direct bright sunlight, but thankfully I don't shoot much like that.
Feel free to "discuss" with me anytime brother and welcome to FM. It's good to have fresh blood here.
p.2 #13 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
tmiller wrote:
Oh I'm a discusser with the best of em brother. =o) People get caught up into too many internet feuds about pc or mac, canon/nikon, this/that. =o) ehehee... I laugh usually when I read through my posts. I try to argue here, and not with my wife. Hahaha....
Feel free to "discuss" with me anytime brother and welcome to FM. It's good to have fresh blood here.
-tmiller
Ha! I thought I was the only one laughing. I appreciate the point of view and perspective. Thanks for the welcome.
p.2 #15 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
coffee-black wrote:
IMO, the 1DIIn offers the best bang for the buck--
Though I know I am in the minority, I would give serious consideration to the 1DIIn. It is a monster at sports, has great high ISO images and can be gotten at a very reasonable price. Though I don't want to start a battle with anyone who has the III, I've downloaded enough images to say that the "vast IQ superiority" proclaimed by many simply isn't as vast as posted. I've downloaded action high ISO and studio images. Though I admit the higher ISO images are slightly better [not by much], studio images are indistinguishable. I've also found the 1.255 crop of the IIn to be very usable and a nice balance between the huge crop of Canon's other cameras and their full frame.
I'm not certain what your husbands expertise nor goals might be. But, if he is just getting into photography, spending $$ on the latest camera may not be a good fiscal move. Any image he could make with the MIII could easily be made with the MIIn. He can use the saved money to market his new business.
p.2 #16 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
I've owned a 1Ds3, 1D3 and 5D2, and the 1D3 is the best wedding and sports camera Canon makes, for about the price of a 5D2. Of course it isn't quite full frame, but that's just about irrelevant for all practical terms, particularly for sports and wedding photography...
If I could own just one camera, it would be a 1Ds3 as it is the "no compromise" option, but since I shoot lots of different things I use a 1D3 for wedding/event/action work and a 5D2 for landscape/commercial work. But if I just shot weddings and sports, the 1D3 would be the camera to own for sure.
p.2 #17 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
Deb Brundage wrote:
Of course, I know the 5DmkII can go up to 12800 ISO and has really great IQ.
The 5DmarkII goes up to 6400 ISO and also has an H1 and H2 setting that gives you the 12800 and a 25600 ISO capability. The shots at 6400 are amazing. I've taken a few at 12800 which were still pretty good, but you saw the grain coming in more. The shots at 25600 are pretty grainy, but would work in those crutch situations and would work as B&W images.
p.2 #20 · The showdown: 1Ds mkII vs. 5DmkII for sports and weddings
brucem48 wrote:
the 1d3 10.1 meg camera DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME IMAGE QUALITY as the 5d1. shame on you.
I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here... and the all caps suggest you feel really strongly, except it can be taken 2 different ways.
when it's too noisy make it B&W