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Archive 2008 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

Wilfredo
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

Any Sigma DP1 users in the house? What's so great about this camera? Any shutter lag? How's the noise, and image resolution?

Thanks,
Wilfredo

Dec 14, 2008 at 04:51 PM

CVickery
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I've had one a short time. The IQ is very good...the best I've seen in a compact body. Makes great B&W shots. The lens is excellent. However, the camera works like an old P&S in many respects. AF is on the slow side and slows down your shooting considerably (use MF as a work around...use hyperfocal distance). The noise is very good up to ISO400, and 800 is acceptable. Sigma's RAW software processes the images as 14mp, but this is pushing it IMO. I process then resize to ~8-10mp. At this size the images are competitive with DSLRs.

I'm happy with mine, but I'd wish for the following :

1) faster AF
2) optical stabilization
3) more mp with less noise at higher ISO

Dec 14, 2008 at 05:39 PM

Wilfredo
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I was afraid it might have shutter lag. I bought a Canon G9 last year and am really frustrated by the shutter lag, and noise. I will hold off on the Sigma until they come up with palpable improvements.

Dec 15, 2008 at 03:51 PM

Vern Dewit
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

CVickery wrote:
I've had one a short time. The IQ is very good...the best I've seen in a compact body. Makes great B&W shots. The lens is excellent. However, the camera works like an old P&S in many respects. AF is on the slow side and slows down your shooting considerably (use MF as a work around...use hyperfocal distance). The noise is very good up to ISO400, and 800 is acceptable. Sigma's RAW software processes the images as 14mp, but this is pushing it IMO. I process then resize to ~8-10mp. At this size the images are competitive with DSLRs.

I'm happy with...Show more →

+1

I used the DP1 for most of last summer. For web shots and small prints it's great, for large prints (anything over 8x10 inches) I would say it shows it's 4mp of resolution. I've printed some decent 10x15's but only a few turned out great (using the FM SI plugin for Adobe CS). If they could bump up the resolution and make interchangeble lenses ala. the micro 4/3rds systems they'd have a heck of a product! I love the foveon crispness and colors - just not the low resolution.

Here's some samples:

http://www.verndewit.com/img/v4/p73444161.jpg

http://www.verndewit.com/img/v3/p580221274.jpg

http://www.verndewit.com/img/v0/p765843657.jpg

V.

Dec 15, 2008 at 04:48 PM

roschko
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I had the DP1 for a week in June 08 and did some Tests. I was in Prague, did some Reportage and some Landscape.
First of all I don’t agree with the ISO statements. For me it is over above ISO 200. ISO 800 is horrible. (Made some low light shots)
The Camera is extremely slow in Processing, focusing and has a huge shutter lag.
Also the handling is not very good IMO ... and the Software for me is not what I want to work with...

I really wanted to buy one, because the Idea of a Camera this big with an APSC Sensor in it is great! I would have it in my pocket all the Time...

Instead of the DP1 I decided to buy the G9. For me the IQ of the DP1 it’s not really much better as from the G9. But the handling is much better and also the High ISO quality.

I wish Canon would pack a 50D Sensor in a G10 and give it a fast 24 or 28 mm Lens …

Dec 16, 2008 at 01:48 PM

Vern Dewit
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

Instead of the DP1 I decided to buy the G9. For me the IQ of the DP1 it’s not really much better as from the G9. But the handling is much better and also the High ISO quality.

I wish Canon would pack a 50D Sensor in a G10 and give it a fast 24 or 28 mm Lens …

I owned and carried both the DP1 (for landscapes) and the G9 (for anything else pretty much!) while hiking and was not that inspired by some large prints I made with the G9. Web size and small prints were fine though.

Once Canon and Nikon get into the EVIL scene we will get some fantastic small / light systems - it's only a matter of time before that market segment gets large enough to attract them.

V.

Dec 16, 2008 at 02:08 PM

HansenTsang
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I would love a small full frame sensored point and shoot with interchangeable lens. Just like the G1 with a smaller body and larger sensor.

Dec 16, 2008 at 03:27 PM

veroman
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I rented a DP1 a while back from lensrentals.com. Wanted to try one out. The IQ is quite good if not remarkable in some instances.

The camera itself, though, is very outdated functionally. Very slow in every respect, and the LCD image is virtually invisible in bright light. Lots of things about this camera's handling need improving. I also think 28mm fixed was a wrong choice. Apparently Sigma and Sigma's customers agreed: the DP2 will be 45mm.

But, even if these dysfunctions didn't exist, the DP1 has a real Achilles Heel, in my opinion. The images are simply too "fake" looking. Their digital roots are quite obvious. 98% of the pics I took looked more like drawings than photographs, albeit great and realistic drawings ... but drawings nonetheless. A lot of buildings I shot when I rented the camera looked more like architect renderings than the real thing.

Second to that is the fact that in no way is this a 14MP camera. I don't care who does the math or how they do it. This is a 6MP-8MP camera at best.

Overall, I think Canon's G10 is a far, far superior photographic tool.

- Steve

Dec 16, 2008 at 03:39 PM

Gil_W
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I've had one for several months but found I am using it less then I thought I would. I feel the image quality is excellent for a P&S. I never minded the slowness of the camera and I actually like the pseudo-rangefinder single FL lens. I do not have nor ever had a G series camera, but from examples on the web I would say the DP1 has better images quality then the G9 or 10. I've got gobs of Canon gear so that is not an anti-Canon statement. The G series cameras do have many, many more useful attributes then the DP1 it's just the image quality where the DP1 excels IMO.

For a walk around landscape camera the DP1 would be hard to beat. With the Sigma closeup lens, it becomes a pretty good macro camera also. The camera does have a few faults, mostly minor to me, and it is not a pocket camera.

Dec 16, 2008 at 03:43 PM

Vern Dewit
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

veroman wrote:
Second to that is the fact that in no way is this a 14MP camera. I don't care who does the math or how they do it. This is a 6MP-8MP camera at best.

- Steve

I agree, except I would say that the DP1 is not even more than 4 MP. It's a very nice 4, but no way it's even close to 14 when you're concerned about printing! It up-rezes great to about 6 to 8 MP.

Dec 16, 2008 at 04:29 PM

rbraun
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

Great camera for me. I have it set on manual focus all the time and that means = no shutter lag. It is not my only camera but it is my only point and shoot camera to take with me when I don't want to lug around an SLR. The only issues are the time it takes to write RAW to the card and the fact that the hood obstructs the built in flash. Best point and shoot I've ever had because IQ is my primary objective. I will be getting DP2.

Dec 16, 2008 at 08:30 PM

asabet
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I currently have several compacts, including a DP1, G10, and D-LUX 4. Some of the statements about the DP1 in this thread are not correct.

The DP1 does not have a long shutter lag. If you manually focus and use an optical viewfinder, shutter lag is very short. Not as short as a pro DSLR, but short enough for almost anyone. The problem is that it goes unresponsive after a shot and doesn't allow the next shot for 4-5 seconds.

I've compared DP1 prints to prints from the Canon G9, G10, Leica D-LUX 3, D-LUX 4, Ricoh GX100, GRD II, Olympus E-410, E-420, Canon 5D, and Nikon D700. It is true that the native file size of the DP1 is only 4.65MP. However, the detail captured of the DP1 is only slightly less, in most circumstances, than that of a 10MP Bayer camera. It takes a close viewing of a very large print to tell a difference in detail between the DP1 and any of the aforementioned cameras.

The DP2 will be 41mm equivalent, not 45mm. Also, Sigma did not choose this length because they or their customers felt they made a mistake with the DP1 focal length. The DP2 is not a DP1 replacement, but rather will be sold alongside that camera.

The DP1 is a barebones camera with a poor LCD, slow autofocus, bad shot to shot time, poor 3rd party RAW support, poor in-camera JPEG, bad color results at high ISO, slow lens, and I could go on. However, it has way better dynamic range than other compacts, has a well corrected lens that is sharp across the frame from wide open, and to my eye produces cleaner, more realistic looking prints than any other compact camera. Black and white results are outstanding.

Dec 16, 2008 at 11:12 PM

Vern Dewit
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I've compared DP1 prints to prints from the Canon G9, G10, Leica D-LUX 3, D-LUX 4, Ricoh GX100, GRD II, Olympus E-410, E-420, Canon 5D, and Nikon D700. It is true that the native file size of the DP1 is only 4.65MP. However, the detail captured of the DP1 is only slightly less, in most circumstances, than that of a 10MP Bayer camera. It takes a close viewing of a very large print to tell a difference in detail between the DP1 and any of the aforementioned cameras.

Not to start anything here

but I have to disagree with this, strangely having owned and printed with many of those same cameras!

I have owned and printed prints at only around 10x15" (which isn't that large IMHO) with the E410/420 (owned both), Canon 5D, DP1, GX100 and G9 and I have to say that the 5D blew them all away with the E410 / 420 being next and then the DP1. The GX100 was simply horrible (this with good light too) and the G9 was only good in great light - DR was very limited. I'm not that fussy compared with a lot of people either. I have to look a bit closer to notice the difference between a 5D print and a DP1 print then a 5D to G9 print, but the differences are definitely there. Depends on the lens too - I was using a 24mm TS-E L lens on the 5D... I used the Fred Miranda SI Adobe plugin to resize the DP1 photos for printing.

That's just my experience, obviously not everyone would agree but I don't want anyone to be disappointed...

Dec 17, 2008 at 12:04 AM

asabet
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

Vern Dewit wrote:
Not to start anything here

but I have to disagree with this, strangely having owned and printed with many of those same cameras!

My statement was a response to your earlier suggestion that the DP1 is simply a 4MP camera. While true, that statement is misleading from the standpoint of how much detail is actually captured in a DP1 photograph.

For example, the Canon G9 is a 12MP camera, and the DP1 is a 4.65MP camera. At 100% on screen, a G9 capture in good light contains more detail than a DP1 capture. However, can you see this in a 10x15" print? I cannot. What I notice in that print is the better color and dynamic range of the DP1.

Dec 17, 2008 at 09:16 AM

Vern Dewit
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

It's a very, very detailed and clean 4+MP. I remember the first time I loaded a picture up on my computer I was blown away by the sharpness, clarity and color. Then I tried zooming in and realized that I was looking at an 80% zoomed in version already! Which was both impressive and disappointing. If only it was a true 10-12 megapixels this camera would never have left my collection.

V.

Dec 17, 2008 at 09:27 AM

Kuan
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I had a DP1 for a short while which I bought new here in Canada.

Its image quality is very good. However, I found the price/performance ratio very poor.

I think the used prices on the B&S are reflective of this and I think its a good camera to pick up used.

I recently got a LX3 and while functionally much more mature than the DP1, you sure notice the difference in sensor size when working in the RAW. Less dynamic range and flexibility when working on shots.

None of the current compacts can compete with a dslr in image quality yet. But they are getting good and can be very good creative tools - like the rangefinders they are a different tool that need getting used too.

Dec 17, 2008 at 02:26 PM

Grant808
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

rbraun wrote:
Great camera for me. I have it set on manual focus all the time and that means = no shutter lag. It is not my only camera but it is my only point and shoot camera to take with me when I don't want to lug around an SLR. The only issues are the time it takes to write RAW to the card and the fact that the hood obstructs the built in flash. Best point and shoot I've ever had because IQ is my primary objective. I will be getting DP2.

Ditto.

And lots of the same sentiments with asabet.

All the complaints are legitimate...but I love using the camera as my main P&S.

The biggest advantage to me as a P&S is that it will synch at high shutter speeds for fill flash. And for that, it's even better than my Canon DSLRs. IOW, I can shoot at Sunny-16 exposures and not be stopped down to f/11.

Dec 17, 2008 at 08:07 PM

rbraun
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I really love to use the DP1 with family. It is kind of tiring for some of my family members when I whip out my big SLR. . . and when I use the DP1 it somewhat puts everyone off guard and I can still capture good enough shot with it to be happy.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/3050526681_2b8419e220_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3237/2935766131_aa1f72ccf5_b.jpg

Also sometimes at the end of a regular shooting session I just shoot a few with the DP1 and with surprisingly good results.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3068/3076633440_d46a06a4b2_o.jpg

And, of course it is a great camera to take with you hiking. Not only because of it's size but also because of Foveon's gifted ability to handle highlights.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/3089692305_3ca1cd9bc6_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/3048542486_53e01c0698_b.jpg

Dec 18, 2008 at 02:20 PM

rbraun
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

umm. I think the size of the pics is a bit over the top. sorry for that. I slapped it around a bit because I didn't know how to post pictures here.

Dec 18, 2008 at 02:25 PM

super_kev
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Sigma DP1 Anyone?

I've been using the SDx (SD10, SD14) cameras for four years now (about to pick up a DP1), and for me, the Foveon chip puts out some of the best quality (color, sharpness, dynamic range) images that I've ever seen. There was a learning curve for me, but once you know what the camera can and can't do, it is an excellent tool that can enable you to produce great looking images. The Sigmas have their querks and you need to know how to use them to your advantage. Naturally, people have different opinions as to what suits them best. But if you treasure image quality and dynamic range, I would argue that the Foveon chips are unmatched.

If you visit the dpreview Sigma forum, you'll find people like Laurence Matson, Guenter Borgemeister, Olga Vasikova, Rick Decker, SandyF, BobNL, Chunsum, & Carl Rytterfalk. All are great photographers who know the Foveon chip well. Carl is an excellent photographer who has a blog (rytterfalk.com) where he posts frequently, often including full-resolution pictures for people to view. He seems to have been using the DP1 the most often (or, at least posting the most about it), and I would highly suggest that you check out his website.

Dec 28, 2008 at 11:48 AM

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