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Archive 2008 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

d_chiesa
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

Hi all,
i was thinking for a while to get a shift lens, both for perspective correction and for stitching. I think everybody agrees here that the oly 35 2.8 is pretty good for the price.
I have a few questions though.
I'm thinking to try to make some kind of collar for the lens, so for stitching i would move the camera and not the lens; could the 'friction' mechanism on this lens hold a 10D in place or it would shift alone?
Can the lens be shifted on both axis at the same time, allowing for example many stitches like up/left, up/center, up/right, center/left, center/center... well you get the idea.
Any other thing i should know or consider before going this route?
I understand that for a multi coated sample it has to say 'zuiko shift' on the front; correct? How much should i expect to pay for a good example of it?
Thanks for the help,
Daniele.

Oct 25, 2008 at 02:16 PM

prashant
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

Can the lens be shifted on both axis at the same time, allowing for example many stitches like up/left, up/center, up/right, center/left, center/center... well you get the idea.>>
yes.
I understand that for a multi coated sample it has to say 'zuiko shift' on the front; correct? How much should i expect to pay for a good example of it?>>
both should be equally good.

Oct 25, 2008 at 03:16 PM

d_chiesa
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

Hi,
thanks for the help, prashant.
I got a like new copy of this lens with case for what looks like a decent price (345 euro); i suppose the next step will be to try to find some way to get a kind of collar made so i can attach the lens to the tripod and move the body...
It looks like there is not a lot of room in the barrel where to try to attach a collar.
Any ideas or somebody already tried this on this or a similar lens?
Thanks for all the support; this is quite more difficult than just putting an adapter on an old lens, the thing that got me into this alternative thing...

Oct 26, 2008 at 09:37 AM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

I've got one of these lenses and much easier than trying to attach a collar to the lens is to use something like an RRS plate on your camera that will let you slide the whole camera left and right, which accomplishes the same thing. The RRS plates have graduation marks on them. This technique works perfectly.

Oct 26, 2008 at 08:19 PM

d_chiesa
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

The one thing you can't do, though, is multiple rows. It would mean precisely change the height of the camera too...
Since i do it for fun, i'll give it a try anyways; might end up with nothing but i'll have fun in the process.

Oct 27, 2008 at 01:17 AM

shirozina
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

Much easier to use it unshifted on a Panoramic head and then use a good stitching app like PTgui - it will give you multi row capability and much more coverage.

Oct 27, 2008 at 01:36 AM

d_chiesa
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

Well, i do hate somewhat those stitching apps, and the whole idea. After all, if you move the lens, even though on the nodal point, you're still moving it and have to deal with distortions no matte what.
I understand that with a shift lens you're a lot more limited, but you're capturing parts of the same image, provided you don't move the lens. In fact, i'm also intrigued by using a DSLR as a LF back, but i want to try this 'simpler' and cheaper approach first.
Still, even just for single row panoramas, just for the wider aspect ratio, i think the shift lens is superior than a pano head, but again, as Peter sais above, for single row it is probably better to just use a graduated plate to shift the lens and camera.
I will get the lens in a week or so, then i'll see what i can come up with...

Oct 27, 2008 at 03:47 AM

montespluga
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

d_chiesa wrote:
.............
Still, even just for single row panoramas, just for the wider aspect ratio, i think the shift lens is superior than a pano head, but again, as Peter sais above, for single row it is probably better to just use a graduated plate to shift the lens and camera..

No way: having the zuiko PC-35 as well as the Schneider PC-28, I made my home lessons and went through that flatstitching-stuff. You nearly can't get rid of the image distortions in the flatstitched panos. Plus the flatstitched images will suffer from fuzzy imageborders, as with a PC-lens you' re going to the limits of the image-circle - even if the circle itself is bigger than a normal 35 mm-lens; to about 60 mm.

Meanwhile when properly stitching, you'rer using the sweet spot of the lens, only, and have - as long as you stay in reasonable image angles, (till 110 deg) much less distortion, as the stitching apps correct for distortion; depending on the projection as well.
The stitching apps have become much more smarter, aka userfriendly, in these days.

-----
@shirozina
wondering why not using the distagon 35? My zuiko PC-35 has lots more of CA...

Oct 27, 2008 at 04:06 AM

shirozina
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

My Zuiko has near non existent CA - sample variation? For stitching I use the CZ 28mm 2.8 or the CZ 50mm 1.7.

Oct 27, 2008 at 04:14 AM

montespluga
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

yep, using those two as well, but the dist 35 is very fine, too.

Oct 27, 2008 at 04:18 AM

d_chiesa
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

The problem i see with a pano head is when you start having very close subjects; then, as smart as the programs are and as good as your pano equipment is, there are a lot of problems. I really don't care much for far away panos with a 100mm lens or so...
I really don't see often panos with busy and close foregrounds...
Also, the distortions i'm talking about in the pano head stuff are as much those of the lens than the perspective and plane of focus; those are not evident if you shoot with a long lens and far away stuff. I'm not worried about the 35mm shift own barrel distortion, and that, too, can be fixed.
Maybe i'll just have to try it myself to see it does not work that well

Yet again, i did try already quite a bit of 'nodal stitching' and i'm far away from being happy with it...

Oct 27, 2008 at 05:08 AM

prashant
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

did you buy it by any chance from a German ebay seller?
I've seen it personally then, as I went to the shop in Munich. It is in excellent condition, could not raise the funds in time. All the luck

Oct 27, 2008 at 05:24 AM

montespluga
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

d_chiesa wrote:
The problem i see with a pano head is when you start having very close subjects; then, as smart as the programs are and as good as your pano equipment is, there are a lot of problems. I really don't care much for far away panos with a 100mm lens or so....

look here:
3 frames, very very close; it's a tiny architecture model, about 12 cm high!:


	http://imago.macbay.de/FM/3frames.jpg

and its stitch, done in 5 minutes:


	http://imago.macbay.de/FM/close_stitch.jpg

Also, the distortions i'm talking about in the pano head stuff are as much those of the lens than the perspective and plane of focus; those are not evident if you shoot with a long lens and far away stuff. I'm not worried about the 35mm shift own barrel distortion, and that, too, can be fixed.

Nope, the distortions from a stitch are better corrected, than with a single lens:


	http://imago.macbay.de/FM/stitch_14mm_vs_single-imag.jpg

That wasn't done with a long lens, but a 14 mm.

Well, you should do as you like, but " i think the shift lens is superior than a pano head," is simply not true.

Oct 27, 2008 at 05:43 AM

d_chiesa
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

No, i got it from Austria, see item:

http://cgi.ebay.es/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=290263536460

Maybe the one you're referring to is:

http://cgi.ebay.es/OLYMPUS-Zuiko-2-8-35mm-SHIFT-Portofrei_W0QQitemZ370099441945QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item370099441945&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A13|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

It also looked good, but the auction was over and he did not list it again...

Oct 27, 2008 at 05:49 AM

shirozina
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

If your experince with stitching apps is limited to the Photoshop stitcher then I can understand your frustration but usinga good stitching app like PTgui is a different matter entierly. If you set the lens at the precise 'nodal' point there is no mismatch or joint problems with close objects - I regularly do commercial interior shoots this way. Also a good stitching app like PTgui removes any inherent lens distortion before it stitches the image as it can read the distortion by analysing the control points on adjacent images and apply the required correction. This also goes for complex gullwing non linear distortion. With long lenses there is no real need for a pano head in my experience and recently I have been shooting personal work with 24, 28 and 35mm lenses just handheld and getting seamless images of landscapes and the odd interior.

Oct 27, 2008 at 05:56 AM

d_chiesa
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

montespluga wrote:
Well, you should do as you like, but " i think the shift lens is superior than a pano head," is simply not true.

Ok, i guess at least i will not get my hopes up too much, thanks

BTW, what pano head and software are you using?
Also, as for close up, i'm not referring at the kind of example you have in the first picture; for example, if in the second one you have several flowers very near (excuse if it's too cheesy!), spanning different frames and overlapping, do you think it would have been as easy?
Thanks for all the suggestions so far,
Daniele.

Oct 27, 2008 at 05:57 AM

shirozina
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

BTW the 35mm OL shift is a great lens anyway even if you don't use the shift function and the stop down button is great for shooting with an adaptor as you can instantly switch between wide open and the set aperture. I use it for stitching on my panohead ( non shifted) as it's got very good resolution and minimum distortion.

Oct 27, 2008 at 06:10 AM

d_chiesa
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

shirozina wrote:
BTW the 35mm OL shift is a great lens anyway even if you don't use the shift function and the stop down button is great for shooting with an adaptor as you can instantly switch between wide open and the set aperture. I use it for stitching on my panohead ( non shifted) as it's got very good resolution and minimum distortion.
Thanks, it means i won't throw it away then

Oct 27, 2008 at 06:14 AM

montespluga
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

d_chiesa wrote:
.......BTW, what pano head and software are you using?
Also, as for close up, i'm not referring at the kind of example you have in the first picture; for example, if in the second one you have several flowers very near (excuse if it's too cheesy!), spanning different frames and overlapping, do you think it would have been as easy?
Thanks for all the suggestions so far,
Daniele.

It's PTGui, and the VR-head from Seitz.
Yes, it wouldn't have been a problem with flowers in the snowy pano.

I'll send you a limk with pm...

shirozina:
yes must be a sample variation; I gave my tests another look and my dist 35 is superior than my copy of PC-35 zuiko.

Oct 27, 2008 at 06:42 AM

shirozina
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Zuiko shift 35mm questions...

I just wish my 24mm T-SE was as good asmy OL 35 shift

Oct 27, 2008 at 06:56 AM

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