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Archive 2008 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses

  
 
retrofocus
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p.2 #1 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


Keep the Leica M8 and buy additionally step-by-step yourself into Canon gear. For example first start purchasing the 5D MkII with max. 1-3 lenses only. Get used to this gear first, then decide what you really mostly need.
From your list I own the 50 f1.4 and the 70-200 f4 IS. Both I can highly recommend. Obviously you mostly prefer fast lenses - but also consider the 17-40 f4 L lens and the 85 f1.8. You need to decide if several $$$ are really worth the difference between f1.2 and f1.8. It never was for me at least, but you might decide differently.



Oct 06, 2008 at 06:29 PM
mh2000
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p.2 #2 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


you can also adapt Leica-R on a 5D...


Oct 06, 2008 at 07:21 PM
Sam N
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p.2 #3 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


Coming from an Asph 50 Lux, the Canon 50/1.4 will be disappointing. I suggest the Sigma 50mm/1.4 if you want autofocus and wide-open sharpness.


Oct 06, 2008 at 07:56 PM
BenV
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p.2 #4 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


I say go for it, you only live once!


Oct 06, 2008 at 08:10 PM
PetKal
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p.2 #5 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


All of your choices sound good, unfortunately, the EF 50mm f/1.4 is not at its best wide open, although some folks reported decent results with them wide open.
Similarly, the 50mm f/1.2L has a few aficionados out there while many have observed a backocus anomaly with it.
However, I'd rather have the f/1.2 such as it is than f/1.4 any day.



Oct 06, 2008 at 08:53 PM
SoundHound
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p.2 #6 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


You won't have to shoot EF lenses wide open because you have two more stops of ISO compared to the M8. You can even use F2.8 zooms if you want to or cheaper F2.0 lenses set at F2.8.


Oct 07, 2008 at 11:10 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.2 #7 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


looking at the op's list

"- Canon 5D mkII - $2700
- Canon 35mm f/1.4 L - $1180
- Canon 50mm f/1.4 L - $325
- Canon 85mm f/1.2 II L - $1870
- Canon 16-35mm f/2.8 II L - $1450
- Canon 70-200mm f/4 IS L - $1100"

I would think about dropping the the 50 (its not L by the way) get the 135L (thn you have the holy trinity) drop the 16-35 get the 17-40 and maybe add the 24-105.
Then he has aset of slower but IS zooms (ok not 17-40) and a set of primes which most people around here fall in love with.



Oct 07, 2008 at 11:31 AM
Gerry Szarek
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p.2 #8 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


mh2000 wrote:
you can also adapt Leica-R on a 5D...

Be careful here the wides MAY interfere with the mirror.



Oct 07, 2008 at 12:09 PM
brainiac
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p.2 #9 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


I hate carrying big lenses. Unfortunately, most of Canon's little light lenses are 2nd tier, and old, and not very good in the corners. The 35 f2 is a great little lens over 90% of the frame, even to the edges, but the corners suck so badly that it's a deal breaker. Here's my solution to that problem:
http://cyberphotographer.com/5D/5doly40.jpg
There are lots of great Leica R, Contax and Olympus pancake or very small lenses, and some of them really can compete with an M lens on an M8, in terms of size/weight, quality, and of course, price. A 5D/5D2 and such a lens opens up a whole world of photography that isn't accessible to the M8 because it lacks the high iso performance, and an f1.0 lens is frankly, a pain:
http://cyberphotographer.com/5D/honeymoon/lowrez/stall.jpg
http://cyberphotographer.com/5D/honeymoon/lowrez/vendor.jpg

Since you liked working with an M8, I would recommend installing Canon's manual focus screen in whichever camera you get. The standard screen is very hard to focus accurately, and doesn't show depth of field correctly. Once you have a manual focus screen, manual focus is very usable and with practice you should be as accurate as with a rangefinder.

The disappointment in the L lenses will mostly be due to the fact that there is visible colour separation in out of focus highlights and bokeh compared to many Leica lenses. In monochrome it doesn't matter. The upside is that most of the Canon L's are punchy and 3D, unlike some Leicas.

The 85L rocks, but AF is slow and manual focus is less than ideal since it is electronically controlled. It is amazingly sharp on the very narrow focus plane when wide open.
The 35L is nearly as good, and if you like Leica bokeh then you will probably be happy with its bokeh.
The 16-35 mk2 is great but don't expect it to resolve fully into the corners, even at small apertures. It's a zoom, so it distorts, but if you use Canon's Digital Photo Professional you can fix the distortion at the cost of a small crop around the edges. The 17-40 f4 L is also very good, though a bit less reliable at wider apertures.
The 70-200 f2.8 L IS isn't that great wide open, in my experience, but the f4 version is wonderful. The 85 f1.8 is worth a look, and the 135L is great.
As has been said, a Leica M fan isn't going to like the 50 f1.4. The 50 f1.2 is stunning, but focus is a bit unreliable at some apertures because it moves slightly. A good copy should be fine once you learn to focus it carefully. The Minolta Rokkor 58 f1.2 has been causing a stir over on the alt forum. It's exceptional if you're prepared to use manual focus. Sigma also makes a 50 f1.4 which a Leica lens fan would appreciate, although it looks like manual focus is essential since there are many reports of unreliable AF.

Other alt lenses to look out for are:
Leica 28 f2.8 R
Contax 28 f2.8
Contax 85 f2.8
Contax 35-70
Contax N 24-85
Olympus 18, 21 (f2, f3.5), 24 (f2, f2.8), 28 (f2, f3.5)
Zeiss ZE 18, 21, 25, 28, 35, 50, 100 f2 macro
Pentax wide aperture standard lenses

There are too many to list, but coming from Leica M you may well enjoy using manual focus and stop-down metering. For long lenses stick to the Canons, as there is no advantage in alternatives.

Some EOS mount lenses are really awful, so it will be much more necessary to be discerning than it would be with Leica lenses, which are universally pretty good.

http://cyberphotographer.com/5D/nutella.jpg



Oct 07, 2008 at 12:23 PM
patashnik
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p.2 #10 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


Wow, great input here! I will have to go to the local store tomorrow to check out weight and size, that will be the deal breaker. I have noted the stuff that you all said about the 50mm f/1.4.


Oct 07, 2008 at 01:07 PM
RalphJ
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p.2 #11 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


brainiac wrote:
http://cyberphotographer.com/5D/honeymoon/lowrez/stall.jpg


Outstanding shot! (So which Alt lens did you use for that?)




Oct 07, 2008 at 01:24 PM
brainiac
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p.2 #12 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


RalphJ wrote:
Outstanding shot! (So which Alt lens did you use for that?)


Thanks! It was the Oly 40 f2 on a 5D as shown above, a package which is very very nearly as small and light as the equivalent M8 setup, but better in low light.



Oct 07, 2008 at 01:45 PM
brainiac
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p.2 #13 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


One other joy of using manual focus screens on an SLR is that it releases you from the irksome and inaccurate focus-recompose method. Seeing depth of field correctly at all times, composing the frame, and focussing accurately on a way off-centre subject is a very quick and direct way of working, which returns few unpleasant surprises.


Oct 07, 2008 at 01:49 PM
fourfa
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p.2 #14 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


The 50/1.4 can be really fun to use if you're shooting B&W. It has a low contrast look wide open that is very flattering to skin tones. In color and in hard light, it looks a little antique until stopped down to f2.8. And agreed again that the AF and build quality are dodgy. If you want something cheap and AF just to have, honestly just get the 50/1.8. For a step up in quality with auto-aperture, look for the new Zeiss ZE 50/1.4 manual focus lens. Beyond that, there's the rabbit hole of alt lenses...

I have the 50/1.2 and I use it. However it's no 50 Summilux - minute focus issues abound when inspected closely. Wide open and particularly at the close focus limit, it has the hazy dreamy look of a vintage lens. At f2 it's blistering sharp. Bokeh is the best of the Canon AF lenses (IMO). But read carefully about the backfocus and focus shift problems that have been widely reported.

I have the 70-200 f4 IS and it's a blisteringly sharp lens and very light for its utility. Its fatal flaw (for some users) is harsh bokeh - it's certainly no portrait lens IMO. Consider the 135L very strongly if that's what you are thinking of.

Also consider the Zeiss ZE 21mm/2.8 that will be out next year over the 16-35/2.8II. I have the 16-35 and it's absolutely wonderful for on-the-run, reportage style shooting. For ultimate detailed landscapes and the like, wait for the reviews of the Zeiss or look up reviews of the Contax/Yashica 21mm/2.8 and prepare to be blown away



Oct 07, 2008 at 02:08 PM
patrickphoto
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p.2 #15 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


fourfa wrote:
The 50/1.4 can be really fun to use if you're shooting B&W. It has a low contrast look wide open that is very flattering to skin tones. In color and in hard light, it looks a little antique until stopped down to f2.8. And agreed again that the AF and build quality are dodgy. If you want something cheap and AF just to have, honestly just get the 50/1.8. For a step up in quality with auto-aperture, look for the new Zeiss ZE 50/1.4 manual focus lens. Beyond that, there's the rabbit hole of alt lenses...

I have the 50/1.2 and
...Show more

As mentioned in passing statements, the 135L is good, great, the best, etc. Yes the 50mm is incredibly pleasing bokeh, and the 135 is the only lens mentioned that equals it. This is the best investment you can make in optics. It is incredibly sharp wide open and only gets better through the range, and the background bokeh is unparalleled.



Oct 07, 2008 at 02:42 PM
jhartman
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p.2 #16 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


I have an M8 with the
WATE (16-21mm f4)
28mm f2 Summicron
50mm f1.4 Summilux
75mm f2 Summicron

I also have a brace of 1DsMkIII's and
14mm f2.8LII
15mm f2.8 fisheye
16-35mm f2.8LII
24-70mm f2.8L
24mm f1.4L
24mm f3.5L TS-E
35mm f1.4L
45mm f2.8 TS-E
50mm f1.2L
65mm Micro
70-200mm f2.8L IS
85mm f1.2LII
90mm f2.8 TS-E
100mm f2.8 macro
135mm f2L
200mm f2.8L

So I'm pretty familiar with both systems.

The M8 is the best travel & reportage camera I've ever used. Compact, discrete, great glass, nice files with tremendous dynamic range, and the whole kit fits in a small black A&A bag that doesn't scream "Tourist!" or "Steal me!" I've made beautiful 40-inch prints from this system that rival the Canon files. Sure, you can pixel-peep a difference, but when you're looking at them side by side on the wall, you'd be hard pressed to know which was which. And sometimes the way the images were created is as important as the tools used to create them.

That said, I use the Canons exclusively for the money shots (that's how I make my living). The 35, and 85 are my favorite primes and perform every bit as well as their Leica counterparts, even wide open. But both the 70-200L2.8 new 16-35LII are zooms that produce files worthy of the Big Chip, as well. I create and sell a lot of large prints, and the extra control of a DSLR, the better noise handling and the more reliable AF (among many other features that make a difference, such as the ability to micro-adjust the AF on every lens) make this system more usable for my needs. YMMV.

It's a big move to completely switch formats. Going to Canon from Leica you will immediately notice the larger dent in your shoulder. Also, you've heard all about Canon's low noise at high ISO, but what also must be noted is that the larger file size masks the noise even more, simply because at any given size the 21MP files don't have to be enlarged as much as 10MP files.

As an earlier poster noted, it might be better if you eased into this before completely dumping one system for another. Everybody has an opinion, but the only one that really matters (to you, anyway), is your own.



Oct 07, 2008 at 09:20 PM
mmanzz
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p.2 #17 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


Hi, I had a Leica M8 with the 28 summicron, 50mm 1.5 zeiss, and a 90 mm elmarit. I sold the lot and switched to the Canon 5d for financial reasons. Lets just say i wanted camera equipment and a new bathroom! Have to say the 35l and the 85l are pretty amazing and are great in low light, you won't be disappointed. I would say the 85l is second to none and the 35l is close to the summicron.

I don't think you lose anything in IQ and you gain with autofocus, what you do lose is Leica's advantage in size and weight. The M8 is like carrying around a larger point and shoot digital, the 5d and the 35L probably are at least three times the weight of the M8 and the Summicron. That being said, my shoulders and arms are getting stronger! its quite a workout. I ended up selling the 35L and I am now shopping for a 35mm f2 which is much lighter.




Oct 07, 2008 at 10:16 PM
RyanFlynn
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p.2 #18 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


It's definitely bigger than the M system, but the 5D/35L combo really isn't that heavy. time to hit the gym


Oct 07, 2008 at 10:40 PM
wolfloid
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p.2 #19 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


Why not consider the Nikon D700 and the Voigtländer SLII 40/2 as a walk around combination with manual focus and auto aperture. It is as small as the Canon 5d with the little Zuiko 40/2, but quicker to use.

You then have the choice of the highly regarded 14-24/2.8 and 24-70/2.8 zooms, plus, say the 135/2 for when you want a fuller, heavier set. You also have the choice of all the fully auto aperture Zeiss manual lenses, which should be almost on par with the Leicas.



Nov 03, 2008 at 07:04 PM
patrickphoto
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p.2 #20 · Considering moving from Leica M8 to Canon 5D mkII - questions on lenses


Why not the 5d MII so that you can then use the 14-24 nikon and the 24-70 canon, say the 135L when you want....

yeah, so the mount of canon takes canon nikon, manual, etc, unlike Nikon.



Nov 03, 2008 at 07:16 PM
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