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Archive 2008 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

Cableaddict
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

I want to get an eyepiece magnifier / eyecup for my 5D.

I'm hoping this will be enough aid in manual focussing that I won't need the dark EeS screen.

There are several options for magnification. I assume the 2.5 X units would give the best results, but do they cause a lot of the view to be obscured? I know that the Brightscreen magnifier maintains the full view (so they claim) but $200 is a bit steep, esp if I end up needing a new screen as well.

Most of the magnifiers on Ebay flip-up if you want to see the regular viewfinder, but it looks like that won't work with a hot-shoe flash attached, so not such a useful feature. So, I don't want to lose too much of the total viewfinder info.

The higher-magnification units also extend further from the camera. Is this to compensate & allow more viewfinder info, or is that simply how they achieve the higher magnification?

What magnification would you suggest for general-purpose shooting?

Edited on Jul 31, 2008 at 11:08 PM

Jul 31, 2008 at 10:54 PM

Jman13
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

I don't know for the 5D, but I just got the Nikon DK-17 and enlarged the Nikon eyecup adapter so it would fit, and it works quite well. Sharp, and makes the viewfinder on my 30D about the same as the viewfinder on the 5D. My only issue is that I wear glasses, so I have to have my eye perfectly centered in order to see the whole VF (I was able to screw it in VERY far to the adapter...every mm counts to not obscure the VF). Still, the improvement is noticeable, and it's only 1.2x. I honestly think a 2.5x on the 5D might be TOO large. I'm not sure how you'd see the whole thing.

If you get the brightscreen, please report...if it works well, especially if it works well, and doesn't obscure the VF at all while wearing glasses, it might be worth the extra $$ for one.

I just wish I could have a viewfinder like that on my Minolta X-370. It's noticeably bigger than even the 1DsIII VF. I have to wonder...if they can put a viewfinder that large in these old film bodies (and the X-370 was a bargain body when it was released...not like the OM-1, which is huge, but it's also a flagship model.) why can't they put them in our digital bodies? I mean, it's not like the prism box on my X-370 is huge:

http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/minolta50.jpg

Edited on Aug 01, 2008 at 06:09 AM

Aug 01, 2008 at 06:04 AM

cogitech
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

First, you need to decide whether you want an angle finder or a magnifying eyepiece.

Anglefinders:

-With a 2.5x unit, you are only going to see the central portion of the focusing screen.
-Most units allow you to switch between 1.25x and 2.5x.
-Not really practical for anything but very static work, IMO.

Eyepieces:

-The best solution, AFAIK, for the 5D, is the Nikon DK-17M (1.2x)
-Koji has been kind enough to provide these instructions. http://www.pbase.com/kkawakami/5d
-The mod took me about an hour a few nights ago.
-The whole frame is visible through this piece

Having said all this, I do not think these things alone are going to help you achieve high precision manual focusing. Also, I find the Ee-S perfectly usable even with f5.6 lenses in good light, so don't assume that the "darkness" is such a big deal.

Here are some shots from the Tamron 350mm f5.6 Mirror on a 5D + Ee-S (no magnifier). I was just shooting around at stuff:

http://www.cogitech.ca/photos/Tamron_35056/img_7768.jpg

100%
http://www.cogitech.ca/photos/Tamron_35056/img_7768_1.jpg

http://www.cogitech.ca/photos/Tamron_35056/img_7800.jpg

100%
http://www.cogitech.ca/photos/Tamron_35056/img_7800_1.jpg

Edited on Aug 01, 2008 at 06:55 AM

Aug 01, 2008 at 06:54 AM

Conner999
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

DK17 - but buy extra rubber cups (or hot glue the one you get) - they pop off easily. Tried the Canon units - they, quite simply, suck.

Aug 01, 2008 at 07:26 AM

foxbat
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

Jman13 wrote:
I don't know for the 5D, but I just got the Nikon DK-17 and enlarged the Nikon eyecup adapter so it would fit, and it works quite well. Sharp, and makes the viewfinder on my 30D about the same as the viewfinder on the 5D. My only issue is that I wear glasses, so I have to have my eye perfectly centered in order to see the whole VF (I was able to screw it in VERY far to the adapter...every mm counts to not obscure the VF). Still, the improvement is noticeable, and it's only 1.2x. I honestly think...Show more →

Which Nikon adaptor did you enlarge? Is it the DK-22 (#2370)? People have reported that this adaptor fits the rebel series but I'd like it to fit the larger 1 series. The other option is to buy a spare Canon eyepiece and dremel it out to fit (i.e. what 'koji' did). For me that would be an Ec-II.

Edited on Aug 01, 2008 at 09:34 AM

Aug 01, 2008 at 09:34 AM

Jman13
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

Yes, I modified the DK-22. Took about 35 minutes of sanding by hand to get the hole large enough and even. I sanded it just enough for the eyepiece to get the threads in, then I screwed it in. The eyepiece cut its own thread grooves into the sanded plastic and the result is locked solid. No gluing or anything needed. Fits on my 30D just fine. Don't know about the 1 series, but I believe the eyecup size is the same on all Canon models. I may take it off and futher reduce the tabs on the DK-17M, and cut away a portion of eyecup, so that I can screw it in even further, to make it easier to see the whole VF with my glasses on. When I first did it, the DK-17M was about 1mm from fully flush with the adapter...getting it to fully flush massively improved the view, so I'd imagine another 1mm would be even better.

Edited on Aug 01, 2008 at 09:40 AM

Aug 01, 2008 at 09:38 AM

Conner999
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

The eyecups do vary between 1 series and xxD and 5D. That said, I use a home-made DK-17 and rubber eyecup on my 1Ds2. Helps a lot with manual focus. Had a Canon unit on my 5D - junk.

Aug 01, 2008 at 02:52 PM

foxbat
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

Jman13 wrote:
Yes, I modified the DK-22. Took about 35 minutes of sanding by hand to get the hole large enough and even. I sanded it just enough for the eyepiece to get the threads in, then I screwed it in. The eyepiece cut its own thread grooves into the sanded plastic and the result is locked solid. No gluing or anything needed. Fits on my 30D just fine. Don't know about the 1 series, but I believe the eyecup size is the same on all Canon models. I may take it off and futher reduce the tabs on the DK-17M, and...Show more →

I just got home and compared the eyecups on my cameras. 300D and 450D are the same. 1D2 is quite a lot larger. I have a DK-17M and DK-19 on the way and will probably get and hack a spare EC-II for the 1D2 to fit the Nikon magnifier.

Edited on Aug 01, 2008 at 04:20 PM

Aug 01, 2008 at 04:20 PM

trumpet_guy
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

Jman13 wrote:
I just wish I could have a viewfinder like that on my Minolta X-370. It's noticeably bigger than even the 1DsIII VF. I have to wonder...if they can put a viewfinder that large in these old film bodies (and the X-370 was a bargain body when it was released...not like the OM-1, which is huge, but it's also a flagship model.) why can't they put them in our digital bodies? I mean, it's not like the prism box on my X-370 is huge:

No doubt, the Minolta viewfinders were wonderful. It's astonishing when
I look through my X-700 and then compare with the miserable viewfinder on the
XT.

This is one thing I just don't understand about the camera design people:
Are none of them photographers themselves? Isn't it obvious that manual focus
is still very useful? Maybe someday Canon will market a 5D style body with
an absolutely superb viewfinder, and tout this to the landscape and fine art shooters.

Edited on Aug 01, 2008 at 07:32 PM

Aug 01, 2008 at 07:32 PM

tootalew
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

Above all things that I would like Canon to make improvments on would be the viewfinders. Recently there was thread asking everyone to write to Zeiss about making lenses with Canon mount. I think we should all write to Canon and voice our opions on these crappy small viewfinders. The main reason I bought a 5D was the view finder that comes with full frame. When I pick up my old Minolta Srt or x-570, it makes me weep that we are forced to look down these dark small viewfinders of today.

Aug 01, 2008 at 08:31 PM

tootalew
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

I have to recant on my last post. I recieved another rokkor 58mm today...(sorry guys its already been traded) that I put on the x-570 and compared it to the 5D with same lens that has been converted. I get pretty much the same view. The x -570 was brighter but keep in mind that I have the Ess screen in the 5D. Would be nice to see the crop cameras with a full size view finder, but I think would entail a full size mirror. I think this could be done, but would make that part of the camera a bit larger than what is currently out there. It would also mean that you would get the view of a full frame camera, so maybe crop lines on the screen. Hmm maybe I should I lay off the Mikes Hard Lemonade and go to bed.

Aug 01, 2008 at 10:38 PM

Cableaddict
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

Well, I can now add an update to this thread:

I received a reply from one seller of the Seagull 2.3X eyepiece. Quote:

"The viewfinder fits for 5D,

It only views about 50% for focus,

it can flip over the finder for view without it."
---------------

Flipping it out of the way doesn't work for me. As I wrote above, this one only flips UP, and it would hit the Speedlight should you have one in the hotshoe. Other units can flip to the side, but not this one. Oh well.

The Brightscreen 1.75X unit is starting to look very attractive to me, despite the $200 price.
I know the modded DK-17M works (thanks, Cogitech, for that link) but at only 1.2X I'd still probably need a new screen. I'm going to wait for Photokina. If the new 5D II doesn't sway me, I'm going to get the Brightscreen.
-----------------

I also ordered one of those cheapo 1.3X units from China. It's probably garbage, but for $10 why not give it a try? I'll report back, if it ever actually shows up.

Edited by Cableaddict on Aug 06, 2008 at 02:03 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 06, 2008 at 02:03 PM

Aug 04, 2008 at 01:56 PM

AhamB
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

tootalew wrote:
Hmm maybe I should I lay off the Mikes Hard Lemonade and go to bed.

I agree.

I think the mirror and focusing screen need to stay the same size, to cover no less and no more than the size of the sensor (min. ~95% of that size anyway). Then there is some reducing optics and then the pentaprism (or pentamirror) and eyepiece. The size of the pentaprism/pentamirror depends on the reducing factor and determines how big and bright your viewfinder image will be.

Interesting thread on viewfinder sizes: http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=624487

Aug 04, 2008 at 04:00 PM

tootalew
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

Ahamb,
The chart and pictures of that link is what anybody about to purchase a dslr should see. This is the #1 reason I own a 5D. If they made a cropped sensor camera with a big bright viewfinder like that of the OM 1 ( I use OM1 because it is listed in that chart), I would consider buying it.

Aug 04, 2008 at 06:50 PM

Cableaddict
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

FWIW, I just ordered the brightscreen 1.75X eyepiece.

Heck, it's only the same cost as 150 cups of coffee. (and I drink too much coffee, anyway.) I figure doing the Nikon mod will cost me $80 + in parts & shipping, plus at least an hour of my time. That's a total cost of $130. The Brightscreen unit gives much more magnification, AND maintains 100% of the view. Plus, it has a nicer eyecup.

I will of course report back here after using it, though I won't have any other alternate eyepieces to compare it to.

I am very curious to see if, as I wrote above, I can get away with the stock focussing screen, once this 1.75X / full view eyepiece is installed. Jim @ Brightscreen said some folks do get by that way, but of course recommended a different screen as well.

Edited on Aug 06, 2008 at 02:05 PM

Aug 06, 2008 at 01:59 PM

Daniel Buck
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

tootalew wrote:
Above all things that I would like Canon to make improvments on would be the viewfinders. Recently there was thread asking everyone to write to Zeiss about making lenses with Canon mount. I think we should all write to Canon and voice our opions on these crappy small viewfinders. The main reason I bought a 5D was the view finder that comes with full frame. When I pick up my old Minolta Srt or x-570, it makes me weep that we are forced to look down these dark small viewfinders of today.

It's probably all apart of the grand scheme, that is 'camera upgrades'. Once the digital chip has plateaued in resolution, ISO and other features, and upgrading is no longer needed or wanted, then I imagine the camera makers will start making other upgrades (like viewfinder possibly?) That will continue to urge people to upgrade to the newer camera bodies. I can think of no other reason that most of the digital cameras have such small 'horse blinders" for viewfinders. The top model canon's are good, but even those could be better I think! If any of the camera developers actually used these cameras, surely they would notice how small the viewfinders are! It's got to be a scheme for future marketing features, I can think of no other reason

Edited on Aug 06, 2008 at 02:11 PM

Aug 06, 2008 at 02:10 PM

Cableaddict
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

Daniel Buck wrote:
It's got to be a scheme for future marketing features, I can think of no other reason

I'd agree. The manufacturers are likely putting all their efforts into improving DSLR Live-View functionality. At some point in the near future, viewfinders (and mirror boxes) will likely cease to exist on new cameras. There are several important benefits to be had from this, no matter how much the purists will hate it.

Another possible reason Canon & Nikon might purposely have neutered the view: (warning, conspiracy theory alert!)

It makes it a lot harder to use MF lenses. Canon doesn't make MF lenses, but Zeiss and Leica sure do. Why not make it harder for folks to use the competition's product?

Oddly enough, a really good live-view will probably be a great boon for MF shooting.

Edited on Aug 06, 2008 at 04:54 PM

Aug 06, 2008 at 04:52 PM

tootalew
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

I can not see using an SLR with live view while hand holding and trying to focus a manual focus lens. I will never buy a camera with live view only. The 1Ds III got an improved viewfinder over the 1Ds II, not but much, but it got a bit bigger. Will be intersting to see what the future brings.

Aug 06, 2008 at 06:28 PM

dcains
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

Cableaddict wrote:
I'd agree. The manufacturers are likely putting all their efforts into improving DSLR Live-View functionality. At some point in the near future, viewfinders (and mirror boxes) will likely cease to exist on new cameras. There are several important benefits to be had from this, no matter how much the purists will hate it.

Such as . . .

Aug 06, 2008 at 08:04 PM

burningheart
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

tootalew wrote:
I can not see using an SLR with live view while hand holding and trying to focus a manual focus lens. I will never buy a camera with live view only. The 1Ds III got an improved viewfinder over the 1Ds II, not but much, but it got a bit bigger. Will be intersting to see what the future brings.

I agree, and I'd go a step further for handholding and say BIF or action shots even with AF I don't think live view is all that useful. Liveview only not viewfinder I think not.

Edited on Aug 06, 2008 at 10:39 PM

Aug 06, 2008 at 10:37 PM

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