K-Lex wrote:
Quite a harsh line to take with clients in my opinion. We've all made mistakes. If you act like a d*** towards them, you lose your professionalism. Once you've lost that you're dead in the water.
I see your point mdude85 - things should be all in order, but sometimes, things go wrong. How those things are handled determine how good you are as a businessman. If you get results by acting like a d*** towards paying clients, good luck. I, and I suspect most people get results by acting professionally and courteously - regardless of who they are or what they have....Show more →
Well, true, we all make mistakes. By "be a d***" I really just mean of course letting the couple know immediately (this whole business of waiting for them to bring it up is extremely passive aggressive), charging a $35 fee for the incident, and consider issuing a somewhat stern but professional warning that your business will no longer tolerate bounced checks in the future. Doing any less than these aforementioned things seems wholly inadequate.
But maybe I'm just being harsh, however in general I have absolutely no tolerance for people who don't have any backing for the checks they write. It's up there with buying a house you can't afford as one of the most financially irresponsible things you can do, especially because it's so easy to avoid.
mdude85 wrote:
Well, true, we all make mistakes. By "be a d***" I really just mean of course letting the couple know immediately (this whole business of waiting for them to bring it up is extremely passive aggressive), charging a $35 fee for the incident, and consider issuing a somewhat stern but professional warning that your business will no longer tolerate bounced checks in the future. Doing any less than these aforementioned things seems wholly inadequate.
But maybe I'm just being harsh, however in general I have absolutely no tolerance for people who don't have any backing for the checks they write. It's up there with buying a house you can't afford as one of the most financially irresponsible things you can do, especially because it's so easy to avoid. ...Show more →
Point taken. See where you're coming from. It's about getting the balance right I guess - making sure you don't lose out, and not losing face with the customers. If a $300 cheque bounced, there's a chance a $2000 cheque will too.
You can't run a business on good will at the end of the day.
There is a reason why many businesses don't take checks anymore and those that do oftentimes have a large list of "do not take checks from these people" people.
+2 on cash only from this couple. Otherwise you're going to get burned.
msnumbers wrote:
We recently received a $300.00 check as a deposit from a wedding client who booked her date for 8/2/08. We deposited her check and it bounced.
As business owners, what is the best way to handle this? What do I say when I call her? We were charged a $19 fee, should I bill her for that? Should we proceed with the wedding? Should I request a larger cash deposit up front
What a bummer. I'll take any and all advice you have.
First thing to do is to send them a letter followed by a phone call...if they don't respond, send a registered letter. Writing a bad check is a felony and you can turn it over to the proper authorities.
August 8th is next weekend so let them know that without an upfront payment...in cash...you won't be able to photograph their wedding.
I only average a handful of bad checks and credit cards per year but I have a standard letter that I send to the guilty party with a $35.00 penalty added. Some pay but most are dead-beats who know how to use the system to their advantage.
I'm sure there is an reasonable excuse for the returned check. I'd calmly call them and inform them of the problem and either have them drop the cash off or let them use PayPal. These things happen and I imagine there are two people writing checks on the account, so be professional and have a little compassion.
Thanks for all the great advice. I attempted to reach them by phone, but received a message that they are not accepting incoming calls. WTF? I'll proceed by sending a letter and an email and let you all know what happens.
msnumbers wrote:
Thanks for all the great advice. I attempted to reach them by phone, but received a message that they are not accepting incoming calls. WTF? I'll proceed by sending a letter and an email and let you all know what happens.
msnumbers
...chances are, you're not the only one left with a bad check or are owed money.
You can always take the check to their bank for collection. I've had to do that on a few occasions.
Make sure your registered letter states that you will not photograph the wedding unless you are paid...in full...cash money...upfront!
Letters are slow and unless you send it signature required (which they might not sign for) or delivery confirmation (which can't prove that they got it, just that it was dropped at their house), its no good.
If their phones are cut off and a $300 check bounced, I'd just count your blessings that this didn't happen with the full check after the wedding.
My guess is that things are going bad fast and a wedding may not even be happening. Getting your phone cut off is up there with the electricity... takes a few months before they do it.
There are many phone services now, especially the VOIP phones come with a feature where you can turn the phone off. This doesn't mean they're "running" from everyone.
I really hope you guys don't run your business's they way you act like you do.
I'm not saying don't cover your butt, just don't act like a butt (like some of these people are) and jump to conclusions.
There are many phone services now, especially the VOIP phones come with a feature where you can turn the phone off. This doesn't mean they're "running" from everyone.
I really hope you guys don't run your business's they way you act like you do.
I'm not saying don't cover your butt, just don't act like a butt (like some of these people are) and jump to conclusions.
Writing bad checks is a crime...especially one for $300.00...9 times out of 10...the guilty party knows they didn't have enough money in their account and wrote it anyways.
Is the original poster supposed to be understanding when the offender is not responding to phone calls after sticking him for $300.00 and tying up a Saturday....especially when the wedding is less than 10 days away?
The excuses I get are amazing...not only from those writing bad checks but those who are behind on payments for photographic services.
I don't want to hear their stories...just pay the amount of the original transaction plus the penalties from the bank or bring their account up to date. Not responding to phone calls certainly gives the impression that someone is hiding from their financial and legal responsibilities.
I don't know if you own a business but many of my small business friends have had it with customers writing bad checks and eliminated personal or business checks as a means of payment. It's either credit card or cash.
karpfish24 wrote:
+2 to taking cash only. If the client bounced a $300 check, the chance that they will be have the funds to cover several times that come the big day is very slim.
In today's world, you are not much of a business if you accept cash only.
nathanlake wrote:
In today's world, you are not much of a business if you accept cash only.
Quite. However, you're also not much of a business if cheques bounce and you don't earn money whilst getting stuffed for bank charges. I think accepting all forms of payment is satisfactory - but if any problems arise then you are within your rights to request cash.
EA6B wrote:
Contact them and adjust your response based on their actions. Crap happens, perhaps a check made out to them bounced starting a chain reaction. It happens. Don't arbitrarily be an arse.
E
Agreed. Find out what happened.
In the 90's I deposited a check for $7k to an account with $4k already in it, the total should have been $11k. Chase, a US bank full of idiots, morons, and wooden posts decided that I shouldn't be given the value of the check (a credit), they should subtract it (debit) instead, and the result was that I was immediately $3k over drawn as soon as I deposited the check.
Silly me. I started writing checks against what I thought was in the bank, only to find in another week or so that I was bouncing checks left and right. They even let me withdraw $20 at the ATM and then charged me a $22 fee because I was overdrawn, meaning that $20 cost me $42. Embarrassing doesn't begin to describe the feeling of having to say "the bank made an error" when the crap began to hit the fan.
Needless to say, the damage they did took months to fix. The bank manager had to write letters to many companies, reimburse bounced check fees, pay late payment and interest fees, etc. My outrage was not a satisfactory compensation. Have I ever forgiven them? Yes, and no. I will never forget, and will only use the credit card, but will never have a bank account with them again.
It can happen, but unless they have a legitimate excuse (i.e., the bank really did pooch them) I'd ask for payment in full before the event. No less than 50% in any circumstance, and I'd probably skip the job altogether. Trying to collect money from someone is horrible. I've been there, and it's not worth it....
leewoolery wrote:
Make sure your registered letter states that you will not photograph the wedding unless you are paid...in full...cash money...upfront!
All the best,
Lee Woolery
Speedshot Action Photography
You suggest having the client withdraw thousands of dollars in cash in order to pay you?
In the 90's I deposited a check for $7k to an account with $4k already in it, the total should have been $11k. Chase, a US bank full of idiots, morons, and wooden posts decided that I shouldn't be given the value of the check (a credit), they should subtract it (debit) instead, and the result was that I was immediately $3k over drawn as soon as I deposited the check. ...
I believe requesting a simple receipt of deposit noting your account balance right after your deposit would have helped solve this problem fairly quickly. In any case, yours seems like a very strange story -- the exception rather than the rule.
leewoolery wrote:
Writing bad checks is a crime...especially one for $300.00...9 times out of 10...the guilty party knows they didn't have enough money in their account and wrote it anyways.
Is the original poster supposed to be understanding when the offender is not responding to phone calls after sticking him for $300.00 and tying up a Saturday....especially when the wedding is less than 10 days away?
The excuses I get are amazing...not only from those writing bad checks but those who are behind on payments for photographic services.
I don't want to hear their stories...just pay the amount of the original transaction plus the penalties from the bank or bring their account up to date. Not responding to phone calls certainly gives the impression that someone is hiding from their financial and legal responsibilities. ...Show more →
+100
Sure, feel free to invoke empathy in that bounced check was a simple mistake and that the clients will reimburse you fully not only financially but in their apologies and exacted rationales .... however common sense and our own personal history with these matters gives us the sneaking (and often correct) suspicion that a bounced check indicates the most egregious form of financial irresponsibility the vast majority of the time.
YES, a certain amount of understanding is necessary to ensure a successful business relationship with these clients. But assuming the clients are merely involved in a snowball effect of bad checks, are victim of a strange bank error, or any number of implausible excuses discussed herein, is doing a real disservice to the intended operation of your business and to your professional code of ethics.
I believe Roosevelt said it best, "Speak softly but carry a big stick."
leewoolery wrote:
...just this client...not all clients. Haven't you ever seen a notice in a business or bank not to accept checks from............?
Lee Woolery
Speedshot Photo
Even THAT might be a little harsh punishment for a bounced check.... I can't imagine client being happy to be toting $2500 cash around in big brown envelope ....
I can't image photographer happy to shoot whole event and then find the next check bounced....
Consequences for actions - bounced check = cash only in the future unless there is enough time for future check to clear. Cashier's check also an option.
Even THAT might be a little harsh punishment for a bounced check.... I can't imagine client being happy to be toting $2500 cash around in big brown envelope ....
Do you own or operate a photography business or what?
Have you ever tried to chase down clients who write bad checks or order photos and never pay? It's one part of owning a business that's a real pain and collection agencies want 30%...if they are successful.
If a client bounces a check for $300.00 for a deposit and doesn't return phone calls with the wedding a week away, what makes you think they'll make good on a final payment?
A certified or cashiers's check would be acceptable but I would deposit it immediately before going any further with this client.
I have regular clients who write checks, pay with credit cards and even use cash to pay for photographic services in amounts varying from a few dollars to thousands...with no problems!
If someone has a pattern of writing bad checks, credit cards are declined or don't keep their studio bills current, I treat them much different than the majority of decent, honest law-abiding citzens.
I realize economic times are tough but, in order to keep a business profitable, you have to draw the line with some customers.
